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Almost sounds like you're advocating for cracking down on illegal immigration..... round em up and deport em?
Given what I take to be the gist of your other posts, I doubt this what you think at all (nor what I think), just pointing out how inconsistent it sounds to a casual observer.
You're not going to find any simple answers when politicians are involved.... doesn't mater which side the politico is on.
How is that inconsistent. Illegals are breaking our law by residing here ILLEGALLY, taking up space, resources, and by allowing themselves to be exploited, have lowered wages of law abiding CITIZENS, not to mention that generally speaking they have no allegiance to our country and its citizens at all.
So a round-'em-up-and-deport-'em plan is a great idea, amongst other great ideas regarding them, one of them being building an colossal wall at the Southern border that can't be penetrated, crawled under, or climbed over.
Wait a minute. That would be "bad for business". After all, "America has always relied on cheap labor". And "that sounds mean". And "they are human beings".
What I find interesting is that the psychos at the top who want exploitable, illegal workers here, but make sure they reside nowhere near them, don't socialize with them, and surely don't want their daughters dating them.
It matters for the rank and file too. Looks matter, especially clean cut and well dressed.
I am not talking about performance. I am talking about promotions and making management. You do realize performance and competence is only part of the package?
He said jobs, NOT the promotions or management. Quit using semantics to change the issue.
How is that inconsistent. Illegals are breaking our law by residing here ILLEGALLY, taking up space, resources, and by allowing themselves to be exploited, have lowered wages of law abiding CITIZENS, not to mention that generally speaking they have no allegiance to our country and its citizens at all.
So a round-'em-up-and-deport-'em plan is a great idea, amongst other great ideas regarding them, one of them being building an colossal wall at the Southern border that can't be penetrated, crawled under, or climbed over.
Wait a minute. That would be "bad for business". After all, "America has always relied on cheap labor". And "that sounds mean". And "they are human beings".
What I find interesting is that the psychos at the top who want exploitable, illegal workers here, but make sure they reside nowhere near them, don't socialize with them, and surely don't want their daughters dating them.
I would have guessed you guys were pretty liberal up until we hit immigration
My remarks were not intended to be serious if you hadn't caught that, I find people's inconsistencies to be very amusing, so I tend to say un-serious things.
I find my ultra conservative, Union Man forever neighbor to be equally amusing.
My first job I was the illegal immigrant - working in Mexico on a tourist visa
I would have guessed you guys were pretty liberal up until we hit immigration
My remarks were not intended to be serious if you hadn't caught that, I find people's inconsistencies to be very amusing, so I tend to say un-serious things.
I find my ultra conservative, Union Man forever neighbor to be equally amusing.
My first job I was the illegal immigrant - working in Mexico on a tourist visa
How law-abidingness inconsistent with anything we speak of here?
I'm always amazed by the number of people on both sides of any heated topic who assign motivation to the opposing side and proceed to argue against that rather than what people on the other side actually say
Doesn't matter to me if one is ranting about those lazy bums who don't want to work or ranting about those evil rich people who don't want to pay -- both make the same mistake - assigning a simple and fully negative motivation that is easy to argue against, as opposed to recognizing a complex behavior that is not so easy to demonize. Neither side seems to be interested in viewing the world from anyone else's perspective.
I've worked since I was 16 (now 44), earlier if you count mowing lawns and stuff like that. I've yet to meet anyone who simply did not want to work, and I've never met anyone who simply did not want to pay for something they value. Life and work just isn't as simple as the politicians make it out to be.
Now getting back to the OP, 20+ pages ago.
"No one owes you anything" -- patently incorrect. At the very least, all people in a civil society owe everyone else a basic level of civil behavior if they wish to interact in that society. How far that basic level extends is wide open to debate, and is really what most people seem to have been discussing here, though I doubt most see it that way.
"No one owes you a job" -- entirely true. A job is nothing more than you trading your time or skills for money. I would say instead that you owe it to yourself to have a job.
This is an excellent post. Prosopis, I see you are new here. I hope you come back often with your good sense.
This society and the people in it can dish it out but they can't take it when the person they are hurting says something.
There are illegal alien Mexicans standing on street corners working every bloody day. Join them. Or else start a messenger service on your bicycle. Or start a babysitting business. Stop with the paranoia and the imagined obstacles and enemies. The problem is you, you, and you. Not the world. Not capitalism. Not the Pope. Not the 1%. Not the "employers". It's you, it's always been you, it will always be you. I am telling you this because it's reality. You are in a mystical fantasy world where you are imagining that people have an interest in "holding you down". Absurd. Nobody cares about you that much. They just want the job done. They don't want to know anything about your back story or what you have overcome. They have a task that needs doing and they want a bland, smiling, problem-free, robot human to do the job well and take the money and shut up and go home. Be that robot. Enjoy the paycheck. Rinse and repeat.
Last edited by Marc Paolella; 03-14-2014 at 03:11 PM..
There are illegal alien Mexicans standing on street corners working every bloody day. Join them.
Working for pay under the table - I'm sure that'll work out well for a documented US citizen... the IRS will come down on you like a ton of bricks. Also, they are working for a wage so low that's it not practical to live on it unless you also exploit every social program available, evade taxes (as mentioned before) and so on.
So... unless you're advocating MORE corruption in the system, this won't work. Also, I don't see you volunteering for this position. Ah, but your "skills" make you more deserving of a nice job than the people who are out of work... with the same skills as you... right. Why, it's almost as if there aren't enough jobs to go around? I'm sure nobody has mentioned that before... or so it would seem based on the replies.
I just love how people around here will sooner volunteer their fellow countrymen to live like an illegal alien while at the same time refusing to even consider that some worthless, grossly overpaid toad of an executive might deserve a pay hit to bring some real jobs back to this nation. Just keep worshiping that guy with his boot on your neck... smart move!
In any given society at any time, there is a subset of the population that is unemployable. There is no employer that can find them of any use to him. The employable class pays for it in one way or another. Either they pay the social cost of having people living and dying on our streets, or they pay for them to be taken care of by public or private institutions so they're not living and dying on our streets. I know that sounds crass, but it's a reality in this cruel world.
In the past, the unemployable class has been people with severe mental or physical disabilities. But even some people with mental or physical disabilities were employable. There were menial jobs for them. Now, technology has been rapidly eliminating menial desk jobs and menial physical labor. The unemployable class is growing. You need to be smarter and healthier these days to meet the minimum level of usefulness to the economy. And if your work experience becomes irrelevant because of technology/outsourcing/etc., you might be in a quagmire because on-the-job training is a thing of the past.
What do we as a society do with people who can't be a part of the natural working world? We have to pay for it somehow. We can give them "charity jobs", basically pay for them to dig holes and fill them back up. A lot of government sectors are essentially jobs programs that do just that. What's the point, though? Might as well send people a check for doing nothing. Believe it or not, Libertarian economists and social scientists like Milton Friedman and Charles Murray have advocated this.
In any given society at any time, there is a subset of the population that is unemployable. There is no employer that can find them of any use to him. The employable class pays for it in one way or another. Either they pay the social cost of having people living and dying on our streets, or they pay for them to be taken care of by public or private institutions so they're not living and dying on our streets. I know that sounds crass, but it's a reality in this cruel world.
In the past, the unemployable class has been people with severe mental or physical disabilities. But even some people with mental or physical disabilities were employable. There were menial jobs for them. Now, technology has been rapidly eliminating menial desk jobs and menial physical labor. The unemployable class is growing. You need to be smarter and healthier these days to meet the minimum level of usefulness to the economy. And if your work experience becomes irrelevant because of technology/outsourcing/etc., you might be in a quagmire because on-the-job training is a thing of the past.
What do we as a society do with people who can't be a part of the natural working world? We have to pay for it somehow. We can give them "charity jobs", basically pay for them to dig holes and fill them back up. A lot of government sectors are essentially jobs programs that do just that. What's the point, though? Might as well send people a check for doing nothing. Believe it or not, Libertarian economists and social scientists like Milton Friedman and Charles Murray have advocated this.
If on the job training is a thing of the past, then executives cannot complain about talent shortages.
How law-abidingness inconsistent with anything we speak of here?
I haven't the foggiest, that's in your head, not mine. But it does indicate that I haven't explained my remark clearly on the first attempt.
The remark on "inconsistent" was more that you fellas sound like you're fresh out of whatever the OWS crowd is up to these days, and the relatively recent observer who has just waded through 25 or more pages of strawman arguments is surprised by an almost Cruzian sounding view of the immigration policy. It amuses me.... that is all. I don't expect you (or rambler, to whom my remark was made) to find my remarks consistent either, feel free to point that out to me later
Write it off as a dumb off the cuff comment and let it pass. Obviously fell flat, sure isn't the first time
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