Attitude of people in their 20's (highest, benefit, internet bill, office)
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Obviously,given all the bantering back and forth about Baby Boomers and Millennials prove that us Gen X'ers have everything figured out.
(Yes, I'm being sarcastic...I find generation bashing to be stupid and pointless).
I do too, the issue is that many things said are that instead of doing things the way others think is right, the younger generation move to the beat of their own drummer, just like the older generation did and got lambasted for when they were the younger generation. There are screw ups in every generation, for some reason we always go for the bad seeds rather than the best of the best (unless they heel turn on their generation and sell them up the river.)
Of course, the bigger question is why as a nation we've had choices reduced to living with roommates or parents vs. actually having jobs that pay a decent wage...
Well I can tell you that this is nothing new in the northeast. Houses are generally for families NOT individuals. Now there's a balancing problem with some of this in Mass. Boston has way too many single family homes and not many multifamily. Another 90 minutes in west springfield it's the opposite issue.
No one really lives alone in the northeast. Maybe Buffalo but even then it might be hard to argue you are really "alone" if you are in an apartment with people right next to you. If you mean living in the countryside frankly the costs of that are not worth it due to remoteness.
The other thing to consider is how much youth labor has changed that has changed the suburbs. It was not that long ago that finding "neighborhood kids" to do chores was common. Now it isn't. The internet has dramatically dropped the costs of communication, entertainment and education. Saving up money for a new music album? Um it's on youtube. Buying a car? Licenses have dropped significantly with the new rise of public transit and sharing services (sidecar, lyft, uber etc). Most people now live in cities. Why own something knowing the costs of it are high? Libraries have free ebooks and so on. As a result instead of some 10 year old it's now a landscaping company mowing lawns or raking leaves, it is now some maintenance company shoveling snow, it's now some nanny doing baby sitting. When you have a list of clients, background checks and terms of service it can be hard to justify hiring some kid over an established business.
Some might argue that why rent when you can own? Well frankly owning a house is a pretty poor investment once you factor in the costs of living in it. For the most part when you rent you pretty much just cut the check. I know I shouldn't plug another board but my friend Patrick here has this pretty much laid out well. Real Estate
Housing is not going to go back up any time soon.
Consider the following:
1) Interest rates are going to go up starting in another 16 months. Yellen has already indicated this. We can only go up from here
2) Fannie mae and freddie mac are being dissolved. large banks do NOT want to provide mortgages for same duration, 20 and 30 year mortages will not be offered. So as they dissolve the 10-15 year ones will take their place. Obviously payments are higher, volume is lower so prices must drop. Dissolving Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac may hurt borrowers - Los Angeles Times
3) We still have shadow inventory of houses not on the market. If banks start unloading them to recapitalize (say to finance 20 and 30 year mortgages :-p) then others will follow.
It's not like you can't get a job if you just get a useful degree and try hard enough.
I think a big part of the Boomer/Gen-X complaint about our generation is that when we're 18-24 years old, we are going to college, but we're not going to college as much to prepare for a career as we are for the college experience. A STEM (Sci/Tech/Eng/Math) field degree is hard. You often find yourself passing on parties to study. So many of those people drop out to go study something easier so they can hang out more. Then your graduate with your psychology degree and move back home to accumulate debt on your $30,000 of loans because your degree is useless.
We Boomers entered the world at a time that the US had absolute global industrial supremacy after WWII. Boomers went to school for "relevant" degrees like poli sci, not STEM degrees. But during such an economic heyday, industry was still in expansion and any degree was a ticket for a pink or white collar job.
Times have changed since then, and those Boomers who are still milking those poli sci degrees will be just abut as SOL as you Millennials are if they suddenly have to start looking for a job right now.
IMO, it makes a lot of sense for a Millennial to work and live at home, if he and his parents are all okay with it. No skin off anyone else's nose.
Notice, back in the day nobody had any problem with the Cartwright boys and the Barkley boys living at home.
My "Millennial" perspective on the regularity of the so-called Millennial Attitude Problems:
They're often early on in their career, or just entering into work in an environment that has been progressively torn asunder by the previous three generations.
The fruits of their contribution gets them far less than it did when their parents and grandparents earned the same wages, despite working every bit as hard.
They're frequently subordinate to older folks who rely on antiquated methodology; who work less, earn substantially more while doing so, and who treat them with disdain (largely out of fear I suspect).
They frequently hear the battle cry of personal responsibility from the older generation(s), but see those who beat such a drum the loudest reliant on corruption, on favors and/or support from the government, and on the efforts of the younger & more able. These older gens are less interested in being mentors than they are maintaining their bloat and authority in a last-ditch effort to preserve their lifestyle through retirement.
It is intellectually dishonest to say that young people are the problem. At worst, they're both the products and reflections of their forebears. At best, many are tired of the obvious nonsense they'll need to attempt to fix and contend with as they too age, despite no clear solutions being visible on the horizon. The cold truth is that we now live in an egocentric, dishonest, 'do as I say - not as I do' culture.
My thoughts exactly. I'm sick of hearing the personal responsablity BS from them. Hell, I have to bail out people in my parents generation all the time! Most of them get their act together but it's the bad ones in the older crowd (and there are quite a few) who cause the most trouble. Whine Whine Whine I can't retire on a measily $40,000/year pension and I want these kids constantly holding up my big butt to pay for my medicine and my boat and MAH STEAK AND CHEESE! For the record I don't know how the hell these people got to be executive management since I think half of them couldn't figure out how to screw in a light bulb.
And for the kid who told me to read up on history, yes I do know my history pretty well. I don't just rely on the Internet for my sources. I was reading about world history long before this site existed and I know what I'm talking about. Furthermore, the Boomie crowd isn't really behind a lot of the problems in America; that's their parents and grandparents faults. I don't know why the Boomer crowd is picking a fight with their own kids generation to begin with. Yes, if you stick a pin in someone's butt they probably will either backhand you or stick a pin back in your own, DUH! Kid, you should have actually READ my post to begin with.
A roommate isn't always a good idea, especially if they fall short on rent. That happen with my friends and they lost power a few times due to one or two people being short on cash.
Also you can't live on $1600 on your own in any major city nowadays. I live 20 miles from my job in the Chicago area, and my rent is $885 for a one bedroom place in the burbs. That is over half of $1600 pay, and in the city a studio at best is $800, or if you want to live in south Chicago with the gangs and high murder rate you can find a a place maybe for $600 to $700. Then our sales tax is 9% in cook county, in the city it's over 10%. Also the city has little things they nickel and dime you to death like an amusement tax when you see a movie. Then add in a $100 CTA monthly pass for city dwellers, but I live in the suburbs and it's a $135 for my train pass. Then a $1.50 a day for parking. Then if you have a car you have to pay about a $100 in parking depending in my neighborhood in Chicago, but I live in the burbs and have parking at my apartment. I have my car to visit family who live in the outskirts and to go to dad's home cheaply as I don't want to pay $200 in airline fees, then a rental car. Then my health insurance, which is required by law technically, is over over a $120 a month. This is common for most HMO plans, but at my old place it was $230 a month for a basic HMO. Then add in required car insurance which is $600 for a 6 month span.
I have here basic costs to survive, as in you must pay them to survive, or to avoid any legal implications. With most starting salaries between $25-$35 grand it isn't easy to get by. Especially for $1600 a month as you can barely afford groceries with the rapid increase in meat prices recently. The problem is you act like kids are lazy or spend $50 on the bar on the evening. In reality our incomes are flat-lining while inflation for basics continues to rise. I'm fortunate heat is covered in my rent as people throughout the midwest and northeast paid record prices this winter. Especially with a propane shortage. Don't tell me turning the thermostat down to 65 degrees when it's -20 like it was for me in January will keep my bill down as it didn't for anybody in the midwest.
I don't understand how you couldn't see that in my post I CLEARLY stated that you can manage to live on $1600 IF you have a roommate. Plus I CLREALY stated that if someone has the option of living with roommate vs. parents, they should choose parents. But saying all that you’re still not in touch with reality even using your own numbers. Its completely possible to make it on your won if you live with a roommate using your own number and assuming my $1600 a month after taxes.Lets do the math: 2/1 condo=$1100/2=$550 CTA pass: $135 Health insurance:$120 Car Insurance: $100 Utilities: 180/2=$90 Internet: 50/2=25 Cell: $50 Food: $150 (I live on $120 a month before anyone goes off saying that my estimate is too low) Gas: $80Wow would you look at that all that adds up to only $1300. So this person would still have $300 to blow if they wanted to. And that’s using your numbers. I could have personally done it for even cheaper.I never thought millennials are lazy. I just think they are more likely to be "know it alls" who lack common sense. Most will come on here and cry like it’s impossible to live on what I stated but mathematically they are dead wrong. And if they just got past the superiority complex for one second they could see that its completely possible.
I don't understand how you couldn't see that in my post I CLEARLY stated that you can manage to live on $1600 IF you have a roommate. Plus I CLREALY stated that if someone has the option of living with roommate vs. parents, they should choose parents. But saying all that you’re still not in touch with reality even using your own numbers. Its completely possible to make it on your won if you live with a roommate using your own number and assuming my $1600 a month after taxes.Lets do the math: 2/1 condo=$1100/2=$550 CTA pass: $135 Health insurance:$120 Car Insurance: $100 Utilities: 180/2=$90 Internet: 50/2=25 Cell: $50 Food: $150 (I live on $120 a month before anyone goes off saying that my estimate is too low) Gas: $80Wow would you look at that all that adds up to only $1300. So this person would still have $300 to blow if they wanted to. And that’s using your numbers. I could have personally done it for even cheaper.I never thought millennials are lazy. I just think they are more likely to be "know it alls" who lack common sense. Most will come on here and cry like it’s impossible to live on what I stated but mathematically they are dead wrong. And if they just got past the superiority complex for one second they could see that its completely possible.
What about student loan payments? Let's remember that this would need to be an entry level job and not minimum wage or even $10 an hour. Ny impossible but perhaps improbable.
A roommate isn't always a good idea, especially if they fall short on rent. That happen with my friends and they lost power a few times due to one or two people being short on cash.
Also you can't live on $1600 on your own in any major city nowadays. I live 20 miles from my job in the Chicago area, and my rent is $885 for a one bedroom place in the burbs. That is over half of $1600 pay, and in the city a studio at best is $800, or if you want to live in south Chicago with the gangs and high murder rate you can find a a place maybe for $600 to $700. Then our sales tax is 9% in cook county, in the city it's over 10%. Also the city has little things they nickel and dime you to death like an amusement tax when you see a movie. Then add in a $100 CTA monthly pass for city dwellers, but I live in the suburbs and it's a $135 for my train pass. Then a $1.50 a day for parking. Then if you have a car you have to pay about a $100 in parking depending in my neighborhood in Chicago, but I live in the burbs and have parking at my apartment. I have my car to visit family who live in the outskirts and to go to dad's home cheaply as I don't want to pay $200 in airline fees, then a rental car. Then my health insurance, which is required by law technically, is over over a $120 a month. This is common for most HMO plans, but at my old place it was $230 a month for a basic HMO. Then add in required car insurance which is $600 for a 6 month span.
I have here basic costs to survive, as in you must pay them to survive, or to avoid any legal implications. With most starting salaries between $25-$35 grand it isn't easy to get by. Especially for $1600 a month as you can barely afford groceries with the rapid increase in meat prices recently. The problem is you act like kids are lazy or spend $50 on the bar on the evening. In reality our incomes are flat-lining while inflation for basics continues to rise. I'm fortunate heat is covered in my rent as people throughout the midwest and northeast paid record prices this winter. Especially with a propane shortage. Don't tell me turning the thermostat down to 65 degrees when it's -20 like it was for me in January will keep my bill down as it didn't for anybody in the midwest.
Wow there’s so much wrong with your post, I don’t even know where to start. I don't understand how you couldn't see that in my post I CLEARLY stated that you can manage to live on $1600 IF you have a roommate. Plus I CLEARLY stated that if someone has the option of living with roommate vs. parents, they should choose parents. But saying all that you’re still not in touch with reality even using your own numbers. Its completely possible to make it on your won if you live with a roommate using your own number and assuming my $1600 a month after taxes.
Lets do the math:
2/1 condo=$1100/2=$550
CTA pass: $135
Health insurance:$120
Car Insurance: $100
Utilities: 180/2=$90
Internet: 50/2=25
Cell: $50
Food: $150 (I live on $120 a month before anyone goes off saying that my estimate is too low)
Gas: $80
Wow would you look at that all that adds up to only $1300. So this person would still have $300 to blow if they wanted to. And that’s using your numbers. I could have personally done it for even cheaper. I never thought millennials are lazy. I just think they have some qualities that make them less likely to succeed then previous generations.
Just look at your post. You made assumptions about what I was saying, I'm guessing you just read parts of my post without reading the whole thing. Basically boils down to a short attention span, something that's prevalent in millennials.
Next you assumed that you knew that $1600 was too low to live on in your area. Even before doing the math! That's another trait found in a lot of millennials. And there's so many more negative personality traits that our generation possess that make up likely to fail; that I just shake my head in disbelief.
What about student loan payments? Let's remember that this would need to be an entry level job and not minimum wage or even $10 an hour. Ny impossible but perhaps improbable.
You can tack on $150 for the student loan monthly payment and they would still have $150 to play with. Plus if we are assuming that this is an entry level job for someone with a college degree; we should also assume that the $1600 is starting pay. Because that $1600 equates to a job paying about 24K before taxes, so therefore most likely this person would receive a raise within 1 to 2 years further increasing their pay.
You can tack on $150 for the student loan monthly payment and they would still have $150 to play with. Plus if we are assuming that this is an entry level job for someone with a college degree; we should also assume that the $1600 is starting pay. Because that $1600 equates to a job paying about 24K before taxes, so therefore most likely this person would receive a raise within 1 to 2 years further increasing their pay.
Why would you assume that? Most college students are not STEM graduates, so in many areas they're pursuing the same jobs as high school graduates. They merely have a hope for something better, not necessarily the realization of it--nothing they can "presume."
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