Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-26-2014, 10:40 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,842,621 times
Reputation: 40634

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
Here's the fallacy, not every place has the cheap prices or places where they can get cheaper. For instance, if Panderson doesn't live near a Walmart Super Center, he cannot benefit from their low priced supermarket section. If the Panderson cannot find the cheaper deals or cannot benefit from say buy one get two free deals on various cuts of meat (due to freezing needs), it is not something he can consider. Mileage varies when it comes to groceries based on where the get trucked in from. Gas prices at the loan gas station out by me are a bit higher because we are nearly 10 miles out of town and they (the gas station) get convenience taxed. Go into town and it is about $0.10 a gallon cheaper.

I don't even know if there is a Walmart near me and if there was one I would shop at it. They flyer I posted is of a butcher, there are plenty of other supermarkets with similar prices, the ones I go to (now) are locally owned. I've been able to eat like this in Wisconsin (Woodmans was great), Chicago, Boston, San Francisco (SF was the hardest, but it could be done, they tax groceries too), etc... might there be rural places that cost more, sure.

I don't really freeze much as I have a small freezer (just some really great deals, I can't really buy bulk due to space), I get what I need for the week on the weekend and cook it Sunday.

Sure, the prices might not be the exact same, but you shop for bargains.

Lots of this is about "wants". I don't want to freeze the meat, I don't want to take a bus or bike to a place further away, I don't want to eat the same thing every day/week, I don't want frozen veggies, etc etc etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-26-2014, 10:51 AM
 
1,488 posts, read 1,959,083 times
Reputation: 3249
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
I've read the exchange and there is a bit of a fallacy. A person would need $1600 a month or $400 a week. At 30 hours/week, you would need to be at a pay-scale of $13.333 to get that. I don't see may obs at that pay scale looking for candidates who have a degree. The only way I can see that is sales, intern turned employee, cronyism or family connections and being STEM. Most jobs look for experience that most grads cannot get. Because of that, it was projected that of college graduates with jobs in 2013, 36.7% were in jobs that actually didn't require degrees (source: CNN: Recent college grads face 36.7% 'mal-employment rate'.) Yes that would include the stereotypical bad majors as well as those in great but over-saturated majors.
The only fallacy here is your complete denial in refusing to understand what I typed. I can't for the life me figure out how your failing to understand a very simple concept. Read everything again, this time without bias because you already want to argue the opposite of what I'm saying. Here is my original statement:

"If someone has a take home pay of at least $1600/month they can manage to live with a roommate and get out of their parents house. "

Where in that post did I say ANYTHING regarding a degree or qualification? I made a pretty black and white statement. The only reason the college issue came up was someone wanted to cherry pick the budget and gave a "what if the person has student loans"? So I added in the $150 just to show that they can still afford to live on $1600. I will say again my post regarding the $1600 DOES NOT imply the person has a college degree. Get that out of your head.

I will make it even simpler:

"Its irrelevant if the person is a HS dropout, HS graduate, has some college, has a bachelors or has a masters. All I'm saying is if someone has a take home of $1600 a month they can afford to live on their own."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2014, 11:07 AM
 
333 posts, read 386,128 times
Reputation: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
I don't even know if there is a Walmart near me and if there was one I would shop at it. They flyer I posted is of a butcher, there are plenty of other supermarkets with similar prices, the ones I go to (now) are locally owned. I've been able to eat like this in Wisconsin (Woodmans was great), Chicago, Boston, San Francisco (SF was the hardest, but it could be done, they tax groceries too), etc... might there be rural places that cost more, sure.

I don't really freeze much as I have a small freezer (just some really great deals, I can't really buy bulk due to space), I get what I need for the week on the weekend and cook it Sunday.

Sure, the prices might not be the exact same, but you shop for bargains.

Lots of this is about "wants". I don't want to freeze the meat, I don't want to take a bus or bike to a place further away, I don't want to eat the same thing every day/week, I don't want frozen veggies, etc etc etc.
The biggest advantage of living in a city is having a mom and pop places like local butchers and bakeries. When I lived in rural MO the only local butcher within 40 miles was very expensive, and the only bakery near me only had sweets, aka no bread or regular rolls. If you want a bunch of sweet rolls, then that's the place to go to.

Also you mention they tax groceries in SF, but in MO and IL they tax groceries too, as in a sales tax. Does Boston not put sales tax on groceries?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2014, 11:10 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,842,621 times
Reputation: 40634
Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988 View Post
Also you mention they tax groceries in SF, but in MO and IL they tax groceries too, as in a sales tax. Does Boston not put sales tax on groceries?

No, nor on clothes.

I was only in Chicago for a year, didn't recall they did that.

SF taxes were outrageous. High and on everything, plus that extra meals HC tax... wow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2014, 11:13 AM
 
333 posts, read 386,128 times
Reputation: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon652 View Post
The only fallacy here is your complete denial in refusing to understand what I typed. I can't for the life me figure out how your failing to understand a very simple concept. Read everything again, this time without bias because you already want to argue the opposite of what I'm saying. Here is my original statement:

"If someone has a take home pay of at least $1600/month they can manage to live with a roommate and get out of their parents house. "

Where in that post did I say ANYTHING regarding a degree or qualification? I made a pretty black and white statement. The only reason the college issue came up was someone wanted to cherry pick the budget and gave a "what if the person has student loans"? So I added in the $150 just to show that they can still afford to live on $1600. I will say again my post regarding the $1600 DOES NOT imply the person has a college degree. Get that out of your head.

I will make it even simpler:

"Its irrelevant if the person is a HS dropout, HS graduate, has some college, has a bachelors or has a masters. All I'm saying is if someone has a take home of $1600 a month they can afford to live on their own."
For the life of me I can't figure out why you have to insist on talking down on everybody and be a jerk! It's ironic you mention bias when you are bias towards everyone who is younger, or has a different view point or opinion from yours. It's so hypocritical of you saying people are jerks or narrow minded when you act that way.

Also most non college jobs won't give you $1600 a month. Most minimum wage people take home pay is $15,000 a year, so $1,250. Now $1600 is entry level for certain fields I believe, it depends what it is. That is roughly minimum wage pay at 7.25 an hour, 40 hours a week, times 52 weeks a year. With, lets say taking 10 business days off, you are down to $15,000 a year. There are countless stories of people struggling on minimum wage, and $1600 may just be a minimum to survive nowadays, if that. Again, the costs of living vary from state to state to city to city.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2014, 11:13 AM
 
1,488 posts, read 1,959,083 times
Reputation: 3249
Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988 View Post
You only spend a $120 a month on groceries? What do you eat, a muffin for the entire day? A pound of hamburger is about $4 now, a loaf of bread in most grocery stores is about $3 now, and gas is $4 a gallon in my area. Hell a package of 6 muffins are $5 in my grocery stores, and I don't shop at places like Whole Foods who charges more. Most groceries have spike recently due to droughts form the last two years, the current CA drought, and oil prices going up due to instability in Europe. I, and I'm lucky I don't drive much, need to fill up every 2 weeks, that's $40 each time. When I had to drive to work, I had to fill up once a week, so roughly a $160 a month in gas. As I said had to pay over $200 for a basic health plan at my old place, and I know it's shocking to you that not every place has the same health plan or costs. Wow, Mr. Griffion I simplify and generalize everything is shock right now. Also internet bills are about a $100 in my area because of Comcast, with the exception of the first year when they suck you in on a great deal on a 2 year contract.
In regards to the food, I'm sorry that you don't know how to properly budget for food. That's YOUR fault. I eat very healthy and get my fill of food. I also know how to budget. Based on your last post where you stated every cost you had as a line item to show that you can't possible live off $1,600; yet all your costs added up to LESS THEN $1600 (once you accounted for roommate paying half of certain things) speaking volumes about your lack of even basic financial/mathematical understanding.

Second, in regards to your health insurance, YOU said it was $120. You said your PREVIOUS place charged $200. So I calculated that based on what you said. So now your saying its $200 again? Your either very confused regarding every aspect of your life or your a liar. Same goes for the gas, you said you paid $160 for gas when you USED to drive to work. So what does that have to do with the now? You said currently you fill up once every 2 weeks which is approx. $80/month. Which is EXACTLY what I estimated for the budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988 View Post
Now everyone should enjoy going out once a while or enjoy life a bit. Your mentality sounds like you should be amish and build your furniture, and your mentality is the opposite of having the strong economy. Consumer goods drives the economy, and the low consumer confidence is why stores aren't rehiring and are posting sub par profits and sales. I'm not encouraging people rack up tons of debt and so forth, but if you refuse to spend on anything outside of necessary goods you'll hurt the economy. You need to spend a little here and there on luxuries such as eating out. Or the restaurants lay off those people since all griffons refuse to eat out. Same with buying a video game or going to the movies once a while.
First you say that I'm wrong assuming that kids are lazy and like to go out to bars. And now your saying you SHOULD go out sometimes? Again your either very confused or a hypocrite. Then you go into a rant about what drives a strong economy. You can't have it both ways. If you go with your theory of you want to spend to make the economy strong then stop complain that you can't live on $1600 because that's YOUR FAULT for overspending.

FYI, I live very well. Without going into too many details, the house I own that is expensive enough to where it would cost $3300 to rent, I go on approx. 3 vacations a year and I eat out with the wife once a week. I'm not even including the other hobbies I $$ spend on. You know how I got to this point? By not complaining about having "no money!" and living within my means until I had a substantial income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988 View Post
Do we spend our money too freely at times as a nation, of course, hence the debt issue. That said, life shouldn't only be about penny pinching and not enjoying anything out of life. Our wages are stagnant and our cost of living to salary ratio is worse then previous generations have to endure. There was a story in the Tribune today about people having problems paying their utilities bills has they spiked 4 times due to this cold winter. Also you forget other necessities like toiletries and oil changes for your car. Then parking, you think parking is free in big cities? No, and it averages $80 to $200 a month for parking. I had to pay $85, then over $200 in gas to get my old job in Evanston, IL as public transportation is limited in the suburbs, especially coming from the Northwestern burbs to Eastern burbs. Then big cities like Chicago or areas like the Northeast have tollways which varies to where you are going everyday. I almost got a job in the central suburbs, which would be $5 in tolls everyday, that's a $100 in tolls for some people.
Again now your bringing up costs from the PAST? SERIOUSLY?? You stated in your previous post what your PRESENT costs were and by those calculations you would have more then enough with $1600. By the way since you are so keen on bringing up the point about "enjoying life." My budget enve left you with $300 excess (if you have no student debt). That should be more then enough for entertainment. Unless of course your the type that spends $50 at the bar like you claimed that you don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988 View Post
My problem with you, and especially you on this board is you think you have everything figure out. You think that everyone who has issues or disagrees is below your intellectual level and they are lazy or entitled. You act like everywhere in the country is like where you live and shop. You act like your numbers have facts when you don't even live in my area and don't know the real costs in my area, otherwise you would mention the tollways as only 2 highways in the Chicago area aren't tollways throughout the suburbs. You don't even bring up how my state has had a 67% income tax hike in the last few years that was suppose to be temporarily, but now the state is trying to make it permanent. Or the fact the property taxes are in the top 10 in the nation. Or how the gas taxes are in the top 5 in the nation. Or the fact that the sales tax is one of the highest in the country. You didn't even include taxes in your numbers as they add up too, then the tollways, and so forth.

Next time don't insult my intelligence as you have shown you stereotype, act like you know how things are when you generalize all the time, and then insult everyone who disagrees with you. I only insult smug people like yourself as you really think your crap doesn't smell, and you show it everyday on this board.
No I clearly didn't act like anything of the above. Here was the original argument summed up very clearly. I said that you can live on a take home pay of $1,600 IF you get a roommate. You said "NO ITS IMPOSSIBLE" and then you proceeded to list all the costs for YOUR area. I used the EXACT same numbers you quoted to show how you were wrong. That's just pure mathematics and it was based on YOUR own calculations. So now your coming back and backtracking when I clearly just gave a factual response to why you were wrong. Remember math never lies. By the way I NEVER insulted your intelligence. But by the way your posting arguments that make no sense, your insulting your own intelligence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2014, 11:16 AM
 
1,488 posts, read 1,959,083 times
Reputation: 3249
Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988 View Post
For the life of me I can't figure out why you have to insist on talking down on everybody and be a jerk! It's ironic you mention bias when you are bias towards everyone who is younger, or has a different view point or opinion from yours. It's so hypocritical of you saying people are jerks or narrow minded when you act that way.

Also most non college jobs won't give you $1600 a month. Most minimum wage people take home pay is $15,000 a year, so $1,250. Now $1600 is entry level for certain fields I believe, it depends what it is. That is roughly minimum wage pay at 7.25 an hour, 40 hours a week, times 52 weeks a year. With, lets say taking 10 business days off, you are down to $15,000 a year. There are countless stories of people struggling on minimum wage, and $1600 may just be a minimum to survive nowadays, if that. Again, the costs of living vary from state to state to city to city.
Ok seriously do you just skip the posts and respond the way you want to no matter what? I NEVER mentioned anything regarding WHAT QULIFICATIONS it takes to get a job that gives $1600 take home. All I said was a "a job paying that much will let you live on your own." What part of that is so hard to understand?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2014, 11:16 AM
 
333 posts, read 386,128 times
Reputation: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
No, nor on clothes.

I was only in Chicago for a year, didn't recall they did that.

SF taxes were outrageous. High and on everything, plus that extra meals HC tax... wow.
Wow, I'm impressed how they don't tax that in Massachusetts! In Chicago they tax all purchases, no matter what it is. Hence why my grocery bill isn't cheaper for the same price goods as my sales tax is 9% where I live, but the city of Chicago is near 10%, or possibly over as the taxes are very screwy in Chicago. For example there is an amusement tax if you go to the theaters or see a game.

Now MO had a tax free day a couple times a year when school started. It was mean to be used for school supplies and clothes, but obviously everyone takes advantage and get items like a flash drive as that is considered a necessity for schools nowadays.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2014, 11:20 AM
 
333 posts, read 386,128 times
Reputation: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon652 View Post
Ok seriously do you just skip the posts and respond the way you want to no matter what? I NEVER mentioned anything regarding WHAT QULIFICATIONS it takes to get a job that gives $1600 take home. All I said was a "a job paying that much will let you live on your own." What part of that is so hard to understand?
And what part do you understand how you can't live on $1600 in certain parts of the country! We, and by we several people have debunk your expenses and costs now. Also I brought up the minimum wage as people can't survive on that, and your $1600 is near the minimum wage in some states like IL as the state minimum wage is $8.25 an hour. Imagine if you have kids on $1600 a month, you are screwed. Do people who make $40 grand a year act like things are hard to get by, yes and they are whiny. But acting like $1600 a month is easy to get by is wrong. Once you get to $2000 it's easier, especially having a little spending money and not only be able to afford bananas and Chicken and Rice everyday.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2014, 11:21 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,842,621 times
Reputation: 40634
Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988 View Post
Wow, I'm impressed how they don't tax that in Massachusetts! In Chicago they tax all purchases, no matter what it is. Hence why my grocery bill isn't cheaper for the same price goods as my sales tax is 9% where I live, but the city of Chicago is near 10%, or possibly over as the taxes are very screwy in Chicago. For example there is an amusement tax if you go to the theaters or see a game.

Yeah, we're often called "taxachusetts" but we're at 6.25% and not on food/clothes.

Honestly, when I was living in Chicago I was in wicker park during my 20s so I ate out almost every meal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988 View Post
And what part do you understand how you can't live on $1600 in certain parts of the country!

I dunno, kids are a luxury in my books, expense wise, but I have friends in Boston and SF that make under 30k (some very well educated) and they do ok. Not great, but ok. They're not hermits. It might not be possible in Manhattan. A few roommates does wonders.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:09 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top