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It is relatively easy to get an engineering job fresh out of college, assuming you earned decent grades, went to a real university, and (hopefully) have some job experience. The problem comes in later... check back on those people 10+ years down the road, when their skills are suddenly "not what we're looking for" and companies have laid them off to hire another batch of fresh engineers straight out of college for a bit less money. Once pigeon-holed, middle aged engineers are basically as good as dead in their careers if work dries up in that one, laughably narrow field in which they have been shoved.
Engineering is not entirely unique in this regard. How many models work into their late 50's? Luckily, engineers do have some influence over the direction of their career, along with it's potential lifespan. They can pursue additional education, keep up with the latest developments and software, or even explore new areas outside of their niche. Many have done it.
And just because a company tries to pigeonhole you, it doesn't mean you have to go along for the ride. It's relatively easy to find another job while employed. Well, easier anyhow. We all have the power to change our future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy
So its value depends on the decisions and intent of each individual. College was never meant to be a factory for creating workers, but thinkers. So the advice of my former counselors was misinformed. Trade schools, however, will make many fine, hard workers with practical knowledge for everyday things that need pros to get them done.
Trade school does not make hard workers. As a matter of fact, they can only present practical knowledge. To take advantage of this requires interested folks with the desire to do the work. People should not be encouraged to go to trade school anymore than they should be encouraged to go to college. Young people should have exposure to multiple career paths, so they can pick something that most captivates their interest.
Trade school and college are not that far apart. Colleges churn out plenty of educated idiots that really had no desire or passion for what they studied. I'm sure trade schools do much the same thing. Young people need to make an effort when it comes to planning for their future.
"With the drop in value, it is even more important to put yourself in a position to make more money. I am well aware of smart technology for houses, and you can believe we are at least a couple decades away from implementing it at any meaningful level in regards to market saturation. It will also create a new industry of techs to repair or retrofit this technology into existing structures creating new jobs to replace outmoded ones. I have been in over 10,000 residential and commercial buildings and can count on one hand how many have any significant smart technology, and every one of them was a multi-million dollar house."
Huh? It's ALREADY here. I always think it's funny when I see things in the Northeast and the rest of the country just seems to have a lack. Comcast already sells home security that goes well beyond other companies. Retrofit? I worked in retail related to housing. Electronic keys have been around for probably a decade. Look at Iris and understand why Google bought it.
You really have to see the big picture and understand that the internet of things is not decades away. I had a argument with someone about cable being around forever and he thought smart tv's are years off..um no. Amazon is now making a set top box. Does anyone *really* think these are just for movies and games? It's skynet in slow motion.
"In the grand scheme, the majority of us do not live in areas where foregoing a car or a house is practical. I can understand that perspective for large metros, but even in the midsize metro I am in with ~2,000,000 people, surviving without a car would be a nightmare for most."
What city is this? Metro systems work. Public transit works. If you live in suburbs yes you need a car to a point but a city? Boston, NY, Philly, I'll even lump in Buffalo, Hartford, New Haven etc. We reached peak car years ago. Woes of Megacity Driving Signal Dawn of
"Eventually many of the millenniums will grow up, relax their idealism, move to the burbs, raise kids, own a house, and drive a car. This may not be the case in NYC, Philly, Boston, Chicago, etc but it will be the case in the majority of the country."
Not really. There's nothing idealistic about not wanting a house or having children or having a car for that matter. The suburbs as a concept is not sustainable. Cities are. Why pay money to live in something that we know that the financing is going to be harder next year when the fed raises rates? 30 year mortages are gone and so are the 20 after fannie mae and freddie mac are going to be after congress dismantles them. So riddle me this increased cost of finance with rates AND lower duration. If housing is such a good idea why are there still empty homes? Europe has 11 million Scandal of Europe's 11m empty homes | Society | The Guardian
The USA has depending on who you ask 10-18 million Vacant houses owned by the Federal Home Finance Agency should be destroyed.
Let's not also forget who owns these homes and the lack of liquidity of them in the market. Baby boomers selling for...retirement.
So why would anyone buy a house now when we know the prices will continue to drop??
What a graduate can expect to earn, depends on what their degree is in. Some may have a degree that pays as much as $100,000 or more to start. Others may have a degree, that starts in the low $30,000 range. The lower the income, is going to be the one with the big surplus of graduates and not enough jobs. At the top end, they will line up to hire you.
Many of people they graduated from high school with, will be earning more money this year, than those that took one of the low return (low pay) degrees with a lot more graduates than jobs.
In fact, a lot of those at the bottom rung of the pay scale will be unable to find a job in their field, and will be competing with the high school graduates for the jobs that they may be able to qualify for and get.
This is sad, but true.
I think there are a few things missed in when looking at those with the $100K starting pay.
Degree Level: MOST bachelor's students aren't going to make $100K off the bat. It is more likely that a doctorate or a law degree will return that kind of income. ESPECIALLY at the start.
Type of degree: We wont see "underwater basket-weaving" majors at all. You would likely find some highly skilled mechanical engineers, highly skilled computer science majors, highly skilled computer information system majors, and a few sciences. We are talking about specified skills that most cannot do.
Connections: Many who end up in the $100K jobs have connections. These can vary from family to even those from their school or even who they interned with.
The school: You may find state university students but the majority are going to be private schools and especially ivy league schools.
Experience: This is can be easier than others. If you have work experience in with the industry, you are way better off. We aren't talking about someone who likely has no internships that in particular are directly related to the industry and not just busy work.
In all those with extraordinary circumstances will be making $100K. It isn't going to be most. Most will be making $30K because even if they aren't over-saturated, they don't have the degree level, type or experience to make more than that.
Engineering is not entirely unique in this regard. How many models work into their late 50's? Luckily, engineers do have some influence over the direction of their career, along with it's potential lifespan. They can pursue additional education, keep up with the latest developments and software, or even explore new areas outside of their niche. Many have done it.
And just because a company tries to pigeonhole you, it doesn't mean you have to go along for the ride. It's relatively easy to find another job while employed. Well, easier anyhow. We all have the power to change our future.
The bold is within reason. I know a lot of people don't speak of it but external luck (luck that you don't create) is part of it. Take for example if you are pigeonholed, you want to go with a "rival" that is on an upswing. Why, because that place should have growth. (I am going with the previous idea that a company had a telephone book of rivals from another post.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire
Trade school does not make hard workers. As a matter of fact, they can only present practical knowledge. To take advantage of this requires interested folks with the desire to do the work. People should not be encouraged to go to trade school anymore than they should be encouraged to go to college. Young people should have exposure to multiple career paths, so they can pick something that most captivates their interest.
The issue is edgucrats allow college to have a stranglehold on the career path. You have to fight with the schools to really do anything else. In sophomore and junior year I had a course called futures which was a waste of a course based around looking at colleges. All it was was one or two powerpoint presentations on tuition and a few elective field trips to colleges. And this was a "mandatory elective" that didn't count towards a degree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire
Trade school and college are not that far apart. Colleges churn out plenty of educated idiots that really had no desire or passion for what they studied. I'm sure trade schools do much the same thing. Young people need to make an effort when it comes to planning for their future.
The issue is the target keeps moving when goal posts move. Planning is all fine well and good but it is based around forecasting which is a guessing game. Forecasting the demand of an industry within a one or two year trade program is hard, four+ years for a bachelor's is next to impossible. Planning for the future is a pipe dream at best unless you have connections like I mentioned in my previous post about those who end up with 100K a year jobs.
If you thought a college education guaranteed a job. Then you are stupid!!! I know of nothing in the college apps that say you will get a job. It has always amazed me how people will scrutinize every dollar they spend on things. But they don't even bother to consider that the money they spend on college doesn't carry any guarantee that they will get a job!
Or they believed the college when the hype train came through and gave them everything except a way to legally force the university into backing up their implied guarantee.
Perhaps total programming jobs but not programming jobs In the USA willing to hire American programmers.
I was shocked to find our company has off-shored many accounting and programming tasks to India - this is not common knowledge in the company's ranks - we had noticed no new hires suddenly - - but management is keeping the off-shoring quiet -
It is relatively easy to get an engineering job fresh out of college, assuming you earned decent grades, went to a real university, and (hopefully) have some job experience. The problem comes in later... check back on those people 10+ years down the road, when their skills are suddenly "not what we're looking for" and companies have laid them off to hire another batch of fresh engineers straight out of college for a bit less money. Once pigeon-holed, middle aged engineers are basically as good as dead in their careers if work dries up in that one, laughably narrow field in which they have been shoved.
I'd say it's more like ...
-It's very difficult to find an entry level job because nobody wants to train you.
-Employees with 5-10 years of experience are extrememly in demand because they don't need to be trained completely and are relatively cost effective.
-Employees with more experience than that who don't bring in business or are not technical gurus in their field are expendable.
In the more technical types of engineering, you always need a guru. Someone with 30+ years of experience. You think they're going to hire some kids with 5 years of experience to be in charge of throwing up a major skyskraper or bridge when their companies' rep is on the line?
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- but management is keeping the off-shoring quiet -
