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Old 04-28-2014, 01:32 PM
 
Location: USA
7,474 posts, read 7,034,396 times
Reputation: 12513

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees View Post
That's why I feel I hit the jackpot with my situation. (Posted above your post)

My only stipulations when I went roommate hunting was they be my age (39), employed, no kids, and maintain an orderly house or get out.

One is IT, the other works for the government. Both have been living here since Oct... And have always paid the rent a week in advance. As said I never see either of them which makes it better.

My lease is up in July and they've already asked me to renew... I got real lucky no doubt.
I'm glad you've got a good situation - I've heard so many roommate horror stories that I've come to think that having a version of Sheldon's "Roommate Agreement" from the Big Bang Theory becoming a standard legal document might not be a bad idea!

 
Old 04-28-2014, 01:49 PM
 
5,342 posts, read 6,167,667 times
Reputation: 4719
Quote:
Originally Posted by const_iterator View Post
lol

Here's what you forgot to add:
  • You were still on your parent's health insurance plan.
  • You got lucky that you never had an expenses that popped up such as needing to repair your vehicle.
  • Somehow you didn't have any student loans from undergrad school.
1. I was not on my parent's healthcare plan. I didn't have healthcare for my first 2 years. Then starting my 3rd year my university provided it to me (change in graduate student policy to provide health insurance to graduate assistants), but thanks for telling me what I forgot
2. I did not say I did not get "lucky", but my point was I was living on a min. wage income. I did not know that people were actually planning to spend their entire life making min. wage. I've worked at several grocery stores and similar positions, the people that made min. wage did not make it for longer than 4-6 months.
3. Again, my point was that I lived off of the same income a min. wage worker made. Do you expect a large percentage of people that make min. wage to have undergrad student loans? I sure hope not.
 
Old 04-28-2014, 02:36 PM
 
8,275 posts, read 7,947,458 times
Reputation: 12122
Because not all jobs are intended to (or should) provide a living wage. It's not my responsibility to pay inflated prices for people that screwed around and squandered their free education.
 
Old 04-28-2014, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,829 posts, read 2,236,598 times
Reputation: 6225
To the OPs original question:

1) Business owners have a fiduciary interest in getting the best worker (read most productive) for the lowest cost - nothing immoral or unethical, just basic economics. The higher the skill level or productive capacity, the more value the employee has, and the higher the wage he/she can command. High skilled employees are limited, unskilled employees are not, so the competition for high skilled employees has business bidding up wages, while the workers competing for low/no skill work has businesses lock at minimum wage (or thereabouts) because there is no unskilled labor shortage in the US.

2) An employee's labor must generate income for the business (at a minimum) equal to the wage paid plus matching employer contributions to SS, FICA and now health insurance premiums (employer portion). High skilled employees usually generate far more than their compensation, while low skilled employees tend to be at the marginal profitability level.

3) A "living wage" constitutes covering the cost of food, clothing, shelter, and a posible requirement for transportation and communication. That's not restaurant meals for every meal, $130 sneakers and designer jeans, a 2500 sq/ft house, the latest iPhone, and a new Cadillac; that's sandwiches and homemade food, Walmart clothes, an efficiency or 1 bdr apt., a Trac phone for emergency and employment requirements, and a used car or monthly bus pass (if mass transit is available).

Given 1 & 2, not all workers generate a "living" wage based on their productivity, and those employees that are a net cost to employ will soon be unemployed, or the business will fail and all employees will be unemployed.

The other conundrum of government jobs being cited as examples of "living wage" jobs, is a false promise. Every government job is paid 100% by tax dollars from private sector jobs, so an expansion in the government sector of employment/jobs creates a coresponding pressure to lower private sector wages, or increase private sector productivity, or delay capital improvements, or delay expansion (in some cases all four).

The fact is, there comes a "tipping point" that the private sector can no longer support government demands for income, and business is driven to failure by the expansion of the government. We are seeing that in some cases, and cash hording in other cases (because future employment and labor costs can't be accurately forecast with all the new government regulations coming into effect over the last 4-5 years, so larger businesses are in a "wait and see" mode, piling up cash for dealing with uncertainty). As government jobs expand unchecked, tax revenues and private sector jobs disappear, first at the small business margins and then larger and larger companies fail, and in relatively short order, so do the government jobs after credit lines become exhausted (no tax base = no revenue = no government income stream = no credit).

IMO unequal distribution of wealth is ALWAYS preferable to equal distribution of poverty!
 
Old 04-28-2014, 02:55 PM
 
Location: USA
7,474 posts, read 7,034,396 times
Reputation: 12513
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle View Post
Because not all jobs are intended to (or should) provide a living wage. It's not my responsibility to pay inflated prices for people that screwed around and squandered their free education.
So, you're saying college is free?

Keep in mind, that's what's virtually required these days to get a job above minimum wage.

We're way past the 1950's where everyone who wanted a decent job could have one by simply graduating high school.
 
Old 04-28-2014, 03:01 PM
 
5,342 posts, read 6,167,667 times
Reputation: 4719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
So, you're saying college is free?

Keep in mind, that's what's virtually required these days to get a job above minimum wage.

We're way past the 1950's where everyone who wanted a decent job could have one by simply graduating high school.
I guess I should go tell all my buddies that. I assumed they made a little more than min. wage, but I guess not.
 
Old 04-28-2014, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,288 posts, read 11,780,716 times
Reputation: 3369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelpha View Post
Ridiculous that anyone working at least 40 hours a week still can't afford food, shelter, and other necessities.
I totally agree.
 
Old 04-28-2014, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,505 posts, read 6,482,709 times
Reputation: 4962
40 hours? PFfffft! if you don't like what you're taking home work more! I regularly do 12-14 hour days 5-6 days each week! A third of it goes to taxes, so guess what....I'm working my ***** off so the bleeding hearts can steal from me to support the lazy people that don't feel like they need to work hard or at all. The last thing I need is to pay more for stuff so they can be paid more just because you think they somehow "deserve" it.

Again, my challenge goes unanswered.....show me one of these people that can't make it that isn't making poor choices and spending money/time frivolously.
 
Old 04-28-2014, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Hawaii-Puna District
3,752 posts, read 11,512,221 times
Reputation: 2488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
Keep in mind many people do this because of how selfish, unreliable, and all around useless far too many people are. Too many people can't be trusted to: pay their share of the rent, not make a mess of the place, not bring random strangers into the house, not do something stupid that gets everyone evicted, etc.
YES! And many of those types are exactly the ones who are "stuck" in low wage jobs with no real desire to do anything about their situation!
 
Old 04-28-2014, 04:45 PM
 
Location: USA
7,474 posts, read 7,034,396 times
Reputation: 12513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborgt800 View Post
40 hours? PFfffft! if you don't like what you're taking home work more! I regularly do 12-14 hour days 5-6 days each week! A third of it goes to taxes, so guess what....I'm working my ***** off so the bleeding hearts can steal from me to support the lazy people that don't feel like they need to work hard or at all. The last thing I need is to pay more for stuff so they can be paid more just because you think they somehow "deserve" it.

Again, my challenge goes unanswered.....show me one of these people that can't make it that isn't making poor choices and spending money/time frivolously.
I assume you never make poor choices or spend money/time frivolously?

Nobody denies that those in need often made some bad choices or aren't good with money, but it laughable to say that all or even most of them got that way solely through their own decisions or that they deserve a life time of poverty after making a few mistakes. Also, if you think that most people who need social safety nets are "lazy people who don't feel like they need to work hard," than you are simply incorrect.

Over 90% of entitlement spending goes to the elderly, disabled, or working.

Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

Sure, maybe some of those people could have made better choices, but their failure to do so - and often that failure comes from their upbringing not some active choice to "be lazy" - should not damn them to starvation, particularly when they ARE working if able to do so. In many cases, all it takes is one mistake or misfortune to land a person in a lifetime of poverty.

Of course, then there are the people who did everything (worked hard, went to college, got a degree, etc.) and are still struggling, which answers your challenge:

The Ph.D. Now Comes With Food Stamps

So, here's my challenge to you: prove to me that your success in life was completely your own doing and that at no point in it was there ever a decision you made or some mistake or misfortune that could have landed you in the same situation as these people. And don't give me some crap about "Oh, but I would have worked harder!" until you've been in their shoes...
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