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Old 05-08-2014, 07:46 PM
 
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Since so many people on the education and work and employment forums like to incorrectly use liberal arts and humanities interchangeably, classify the social sciences as humanities (there is some overlap for a couple of subjects, but most social sciences are not humanities), and assume STEM and liberal arts are mutually exclusive, I thought I'd provide several definitions of liberal arts. STEM is just an acronym that is used for educational and immigration policy purposes. These are fields with perceived shortages of qualified workers. It has NOTHING to do with creating a schism between the liberal arts and STEM. As a matter of fact, several fields of psychology, archaeology, and the behavioral sciences (anthropology, psychology, and sociology) are on ICE's STEM list for immigration purposes.

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In modern times, liberal arts education is a term that can be interpreted in different ways. It can refer to certain areas of literature, languages, philosophy, history, mathematics, psychology, and science.[3] It can also refer to studies on a liberal arts degree program. For example, Harvard University offers a Master of Liberal Arts degree, which covers biological and social sciences as well as the humanities.[4] For both interpretations, the term generally refers to matters not relating to the professional, vocational, or technical curricula.
Liberal arts education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Liberal Arts: Specific disciplines (i.e., the humanities, sciences, and social sciences).
LEAP | What is Liberal Education?

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the academic course of instruction at a college intended to provide general knowledge and comprising the arts, humanities, natural sciences, and social sciences, as opposed to professional or technical subjects.
2.
(during the Middle Ages) studies comprising the quadrivium and trivium, including arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, music, grammar, rhetoric, and logic.
Liberal arts | Define Liberal arts at Dictionary.com

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college or university studies (as language, philosophy, literature, abstract science) intended to provide chiefly general knowledge and to develop general intellectual capacities (as reason and judgment) as opposed to professional or vocational skills
Liberal arts - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

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In most cases, you will be encouraged to take courses in at least some of the major categories within the liberal arts: Humanities (English Literature, Modern Languages, History, Philosophy), Social Sciences (Anthropology, Economics, Geography, Political Science, Sociology), Creative Arts (Fine Art, Theatre, Speech, Creative Writing), and the Sciences.
Why Study Liberal Arts?

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The term “liberal arts” refers to a grouping of disciplines that, in Western culture, are considered essential for adequate education and civic participation: the Humanities (Arts, English, Foreign Languages, History, and Philosophy), the Social Sciences (Anthropology, Communication, Geography, Political Science, Psychology, Sociology, and Women’s Studies), the Sciences (Biology, Geology, and Physics), and Mathematics.
What are the Liberal Arts? - UMD CLA

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Yale is committed to the idea of a liberal arts education through which students think and learn across disciplines, literally liberating or freeing the mind to its fullest potential... Breadth is covered in three study areas (the humanities and arts, the sciences, and the social sciences) and three skill areas (writing, quantitative reasoning, and foreign language).
A Liberal Arts Education | Yale College Admissions

Last edited by L210; 05-08-2014 at 08:03 PM..
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:23 PM
 
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the academic course of instruction at a college intended to provide general knowledge and comprising the arts, humanities, natural sciences, and social sciences, as opposed to professional or technical subjects.
Which is what the STEM fields of study are all about.
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Old 05-09-2014, 01:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by flathead4 View Post
Which is what the STEM fields of study are all about.
STEM fields are academic fields. Just like liberal arts fields. Keep in mind that Science and Math are liberal arts from an academic perspective.
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Old 05-09-2014, 07:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by flathead4 View Post
Which is what the STEM fields of study are all about.
No. Science and math programs are not professional programs because they are not about training for a specific profession unless they are doctoral programs meant to train researchers and professors. They are academic subjects. Engineering programs are meant to train engineers. Technical education is similar to vocational education. It's what vo-tech schools, trade schools, career schools, technical colleges, and community/junior colleges offer.
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Old 05-09-2014, 07:44 AM
 
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The Behavioral and Social Sciences are listed as STEM majors/programs by many groups and listed by liberal arts by just as many others.

Technically they are sciences so they do fall under the S. When people think of STEM what they are really thinking of is technology and engineering. They are typically leaving out the science(s) and the math.
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:20 AM
 
Location: TN/NC
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Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post
The Behavioral and Social Sciences are listed as STEM majors/programs by many groups and listed by liberal arts by just as many others.

Technically they are sciences so they do fall under the S. When people think of STEM what they are really thinking of is technology and engineering. They are typically leaving out the science(s) and the math.
Precisely. The labor market demand is with the technical and engineering jobs. Pure math is a liberal art and there certainly aren't many openings for pure mathematicians. Science degrees are best used en route to something like an MD, dental school, veterinary school, etc. We've heard plenty of horror stories on these boards from pure scientists who cannot find anything but low wage or temp work.
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by L210 View Post
No. Science and math programs are not professional programs because they are not about training for a specific profession unless they are doctoral programs meant to train researchers and professors. They are academic subjects. Engineering programs are meant to train engineers. Technical education is similar to vocational education. It's what vo-tech schools, trade schools, career schools, technical colleges, and community/junior colleges offer.
I should add that professions are usually, but not always in every state, regulated or semi-regulated through licensing, registration, and/or certification.
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Originally Posted by Emigrations View Post
Precisely. The labor market demand is with the technical and engineering jobs. Pure math is a liberal art and there certainly aren't many openings for pure mathematicians. Science degrees are best used en route to something like an MD, dental school, veterinary school, etc. We've heard plenty of horror stories on these boards from pure scientists who cannot find anything but low wage or temp work.
This is why I started a thread a couple of months ago on an article that advocated for taking the "S" out of STEM. Many of the science disciplines almost require a graduate degree in order to land a decent job. Life science majors have a high underemployment rate and make about as much as or less than several social science majors.
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:51 AM
 
Location: TN/NC
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Originally Posted by L210 View Post
This is why I started a thread a couple of months ago on an article that advocated for taking the "S" out of STEM. Many of the science disciplines almost require a graduate degree in order to land a decent job. Life science majors have a high underemployment rate and make about as much as or less than several social science majors.
I grew up in the town where Eastman Chemical Company was headquartered. A LOT of my peers' parents were chemists and other scientists. Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, these jobs paid a very good wage. One of my father's chess buddies was a senior chemist from Vietnam, lost his job, and moved to Michigan. He's probably retired or nearing retirement now, but the demand for scientists has been shrinking for some time.

Many career scientists have traditionally been employed by government, whether it's educational institutions, federal/local/state agencies, or even something like NASA.

When you get down to it, there aren't many employers for scientists. I believe I heard something awhile back that NASA laid off a bunch of personnel and that many of these people struggled to find employment. How many places are going to be employing astrophysicists and space shuttle engineers?
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by L210 View Post
That's pretty much what I thought. I'm simply educating people on their incorrect use of terms. If it offends you to be corrected on something for which you are blatantly wrong, then you can always ignore my posts. By the way, I'm earning a PhD in an applied field.
And I know philosophy phd's that drive taxi to eat.
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Old 05-09-2014, 11:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rosie_hair View Post
And I know philosophy phd's that drive taxi to eat.
What does this have to do with anything I said? I am not and never have been a philosophy major, but driving taxis is not even relevant to the post you quoted.
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