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I am about as far from a tech geek as you can get, but isn't this an issue of aptitude? So if Person A is really good at JAVA, wouldn't he/she be able to pick-up XYZ language quickly? Furthermore, if languages change and are replaced constantly, then no one is really proficient at the beginning, no? Then, everyone has to learn it from the get go whether or not they are employed?
Yes -- but you would have to have picked up XYZ language or you would be stale.
Imagine if someone was a secretary and learned how to type on a typewriter, quit working and now wants to return as an executive assistant but doesn't know anything about word processing programs or how to turn on a computer.
We have plenty of qualified people out of work or grossly underemployed because they don't have 3 to 5 years of almost company specific experience in whatever suddenly became the hot field to be in a year or two ago. Sure, they could be retrained, but that would cost time and money, and our society simply refuses to do that anymore. So, jobs sit unfilled for months, we off-shore and import more visa workers, and we end up with growing rolls of unemployed and people with high-end degrees flipping burgers. It's a tragic shame and a costly way to screw up a society.
If you plan to be out of the workforce for some significant time, it's your responsibility to keep yourself current. Go back to college before looking for a job.
Anyone who can afford to take an extended break from their career can afford to keep their skills up to date.
Yes -- but you would have to have picked up XYZ language or you would be stale.
Imagine if someone was a secretary and learned how to type on a typewriter, quit working and now wants to return as an executive assistant but doesn't know anything about word processing programs or how to turn on a computer.
You absolutely must keep up with the technology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
If you plan to be out of the workforce for some significant time, it's your responsibility to keep yourself current. Go back to college before looking for a job.
Anyone who can afford to take an extended break from their career can afford to keep their skills up to date.
Then how do you suggest working around the whole issue of "you need 3-5 years of java experience, specifically working with framework X and database Y"?
Most employers and recruiters I know of wouldn't count taking a class or two on Java and SQL at the local community college to brush up your skills/take off the rust as relevant experience.
It could happen, or they could just expect applicants to teach themselves. My brother taught himself all the languages he knew employers were looking for.
Most of the time they just expect you to know enough. Just show familiarity with the language, they don't expect you to be an expert.
That's what "Proficient in the following programs" means. It at least gets you to the interview stage. I have a lot of statistical languages on my resume that I am by no means an expert in: SAS, LISREL, R, etc. I know enough that if they asked me basic questions I could answer them. I taught myself all of them. I only learned SPSS, HLM, and Multilog in school.
I wish companies only wanted you to show familiarity with the languages. I taught myself C/C++, C#, .NET fundamentals, SQL, amongst other languages and still cannot land an offer doing real software engineering. In addition to this, I have taken university level courses from the comp sci department to further back my credentials. Still no bites.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncsuengineer256
I wish companies only wanted you to show familiarity with the languages. I taught myself C/C++, C#, .NET fundamentals, SQL, amongst other languages and still cannot land an offer doing real software engineering. In addition to this, I have taken university level courses from the comp sci department to further back my credentials. Still no bites.
Have you considered getting involved in a start up and using your skills there? Might not pay much, if anything, but it is resume fodder and you could have actual projects as examples. Just a thought.
We have plenty of qualified people out of work or grossly underemployed because they don't have 3 to 5 years of almost company specific experience in whatever suddenly became the hot field to be in a year or two ago. Sure, they could be retrained, but that would cost time and money, and our society simply refuses to do that anymore. So, jobs sit unfilled for months, we off-shore and import more visa workers, and we end up with growing rolls of unemployed and people with high-end degrees flipping burgers. It's a tragic shame and a costly way to screw up a society.
This is exactly what is happening in the large metro area that I live in.
I wish companies only wanted you to show familiarity with the languages. I taught myself C/C++, C#, .NET fundamentals, SQL, amongst other languages and still cannot land an offer doing real software engineering. In addition to this, I have taken university level courses from the comp sci department to further back my credentials. Still no bites.
And this is why people are against the "bootstrapping" arguments. It sounds like you are doing the right things (at least in general), but are unable to parlay that into a real job.
My mother met a job coach at her church, and she supposedly was a recruiter in various capacities and knows other recruiters.
I got her contact info two months ago when I was preparing for the three interviews I had. I was unsuccessful at these, so I just contacted her. I emailed her with a little info about myself, and that I am willing to put in some work on my skills to find a job, some of which will cost a fair amount of money. I asked her what ideas she had and how I could parlay any of my previous experiences and passion/general interests in computing to my advantage.
Have you considered getting involved in a start up and using your skills there? Might not pay much, if anything, but it is resume fodder and you could have actual projects as examples. Just a thought.
The company that I left back in February was pretty much a start up and they were laying people off and my position was being outsourced for the lowest bidder (service provider). I cannot afford that type of risk anymore with a wife and child to support. However, I am keeping an open mind to stable start-ups that are showing growth potential.
The company that I left back in February was pretty much a start up and they were laying people off and my position was being outsourced for the lowest bidder (service provider). I cannot afford that type of risk anymore with a wife and child to support. However, I am keeping an open mind to stable start-ups that are showing growth potential.
This is the big problem with start ups. Usually there is a certain amount of uncertainty, and not everyone can afford that sort of risk. For example, I just got married and my wife is particularly anxious about having children. I would rather take a lower paying job at a established company.
I'm interested in this. I happen to be in a field in which skills do not go stale, even if one were out of a job for a year. Perhaps one might get "out of the groove", but their skills would not go stale in a year, or perhaps more!
Anyone care to chime in on this and explain how "technology is advancing EVERYDAY" and how skills in some fields can go stale?
Lastly, what should we do for those whose skills have gone stale? Abandon them? Shut them out of a field? Force them into poverty because they are going through a rough time in a less-than-stellar economy?
I do not believe that wagon makers were propped up. Their skills went stale.
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