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I think it may actually be a much bigger problem to have a degree that is worthless because of the school it came from rather than a degree that is worthless because of the field you majored in. Those massive debt loads are more likely to be tied to the former as well.
Really, when you look at the OP's story, the school involved seems to be a bigger issue than the major involved.
I agree. Where you went to school DOES matter, at least initially and at least to a decent amount of employers. If you went to a great, tier one school and majored in English Lit, I think you'll probably have an easier time in the labor market than if you majored in Business Management at Devry University. That's just my opinion though based on what I've observed. You can usually tell the difference in the quality of the graduate as well.
tuck's dad, thanks for your encouraging story. Our child will be going to community college (his choice) at the end of his senior year. He just does not want to go into debt, and is planning on transferring into a university (as yet undetermined). I hear and read of people getting so much flak for doing that... and how it is a bad move and your career choices will be limited... nice to hear a positive story!
We have all known people that just have gotten off the fast high pressure track if they are miserable and gotten into a "low tech" career and they are very very happy. Everyone has to choose their own path.
I left California about the time I noticed a sign proudly declaring that 99% of it's residents were within commuting distance to a junior college. Other states never seemed to get on board this idea, which would be a no brainer for say.....Wyoming.
However, here in B.C. junior colleges pretty much pull the trades, including journalism, while the four year universities are pretty much mandated for the professions.
I understand that as of the nineties you couldn't do what a few friends did in the seventies: maintain a high grade average in a school mid-US and then transfer to Yale and claim you're a Yale man. Door closed on that one, unless perhaps you're an international student.
The cost of education today is obscene. My son just graduated UBC Vancouver and if it wasn't for the tuition savings program (Federal) and contributions from the grandparents he would not have graduated debt free. This should be a clear election issue, and IS in Quebec. They've had protests in the streets in that province.
tuck's dad, thanks for your encouraging story. Our child will be going to community college (his choice) at the end of his senior year. He just does not want to go into debt, and is planning on transferring into a university (as yet undetermined). I hear and read of people getting so much flak for doing that... and how it is a bad move and your career choices will be limited... nice to hear a positive story!
We have all known people that just have gotten off the fast high pressure track if they are miserable and gotten into a "low tech" career and they are very very happy. Everyone has to choose their own path.
It's a shame that someone who has a son who is mature and being fiscally responsible, is being forced to listen to this nonsense.
Your son will graduate from X University, just as the students who attended the school for four years. How could that possibly limit his career choices?
Why do parents do this to one another rather than being supportive? Perhaps they feel their child could have made a wiser decision, too, so they're defensive. Whatever it is, just know they are wrong and your son is to be commended.
It's a shame that someone who has a son who is mature and being fiscally responsible, is being forced to listen to this nonsense.
Your son will graduate from X University, just as the students who attended the school for four years. How could that possibly limit his career choices?
Why do parents do this to one another rather than being supportive? Perhaps they feel their child could have made a wiser decision, too, so they're defensive. Whatever it is, just know they are wrong and your son is to be commended.
Parents have always been in the business of talking their kid up over another. My aunt did the same thing to me at one point.
Truth be told, it does not matter where you start your education. I started at a 3rd tier university because it was mostly paid for. I graduated from a 1st tier. Guess how many people ask me about my first two years of uni that mostly involved taking electives anyway? If you guessed zero, I'll mail you a piece of cake.
I was looking at Facebook and saw the profile of a guy I grew up with. He was always into theater, so he went to a local private school that cost around $30k annually just in tuition at the time. Five years post graduation, the guy's Facebook shows him as employed at Dunkin' Donuts and he has a picture of himself in his work uniform.
Do you know many people that have made such a grave professional and financial error?
5 years isn't very long...after you finish school with a degree like this it takes usually around 5-10 to "make it" and work professionally on a regular basis. He's doing what every other actor has done, he's paying his dues until he gets his Equity/SAG/AFTRA membership and goes pro.
When he does I guarantee you he will have slung his last mug of coffee.
Let's be clear here... you can always take on a low level government job and get loan forgiveness after 10 years.
Not exactly. While there are programs like that for the USA that is not exactly something that everyone can do. The more that try it the harder it is to do it.
The other thing is from the employer perspective if they know this they might be less inclined to hire, not more. Especially if someone comes from a STEM field. This is where you see those in social sciences hired over STEM because they are more likely to stay after ten years.
1) Good luck funding that teaching position because generally if a school does not perform the state pumps money into it to attract more teachers. These schools are not located in all states either.
2) the military is already at capacity
3) Income based plans can take decades
4) government positions. Again if it comes down to someone with debt and STEM vs someone that kinda knows about government to start with and debt they'll pick the one that knows about it.
5 years isn't very long...after you finish school with a degree like this it takes usually around 5-10 to "make it" and work professionally on a regular basis. He's doing what every other actor has done, he's paying his dues until he gets his Equity/SAG/AFTRA membership and goes pro.
When he does I guarantee you he will have slung his last mug of coffee.
A lot of you are under the assumption he "makes it." Like I said, he is in an area where this isn't a big industry. Likewise, after five years, wouldn't you reverse course? How long do you keep on the sidelines hoping for a lucky break?
And most actors, symphony musicians, etc. these days do their work on a volunteer basis on the side. I'm one of the lucky ones who gets even a SMALL PART of his paycheck from actually doing a "fine art" that he went to school for.
Yep. I minored in music performance (majored in English, then earned the MLIS), and use my love of music in mostly volunteer/community orchestras... occasionally I'll do a paid gig at a church, ballet, opera, etc, but those are few & far between! My day job is working as a reference librarian, thus utilizing my MLIS, and at least one night a week is reserved for my "hobby" as a musician. I probably could have found a second-rate paying professional orchestra, since I'm a viola and considered high/professional level, but feared it would make the whole experience less enjoyable - plus, even first-rate orchestras don't pay much unless you're a principal. Why do you think so many professional musicians also work as music teachers?
That being said, as long as the dude in the OP's story is happy, who really cares where he works? And since nobody here knows exactly how much he borrowed (if anything) for his education, or why he works at DD, I don't think any of us can judge. I worked at a video store and pet store after college, but that's because I was attending graduate school full-time, and couldn't handle a "real job" on top of that... and I took zero loans or grants for 100% of my BA & MLIS education, since I'm fortunate to have parents who were able to pay. So if the OP had seen a pic of me at the video store, would they have thought I was a failure in 120K+ debt? Probably, even though it would have been a false assumption.
A lot of you are under the assumption he "makes it." Like I said, he is in an area where this isn't a big industry. Likewise, after five years, wouldn't you reverse course? How long do you keep on the sidelines hoping for a lucky break?
Not everyone in the arts is aiming for fame & fortune, some just legitimately LOVE what they do... even if that means doing community theater for nothing, while slinging coffee & donuts to pay the rent. Working at a place like DD also offers more flexibility, in terms of hours, which is very important for someone in the arts. I work at a full-time professional/govt job, and sometimes have to pass up music gigs because I'm locked into working that day or night. If I were more dedicated to pursuing my music, I'd have to find something more hourly & flexible in nature. So yeah, just something to consider.
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