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I've only been on these forums for a few months, hell just recently started posting but erm I don't see the whining too often. If I do come across it though it's so much easier to hit the back button on my browser and continue on versus reading further and becoming even more frustrated.
That's a cop-out, plain and simple. They chose to give up. A lot of us have been in those same situations. Or worse. Somehow, we have managed to be successful. Please tell me how they somehow have this magical dome around them that prohibits them from gaining employment.
Area - Doesn't mean a thing. You can find a job in the worst of areas, albeit it might not be what you want.
Lack of skills - Everyone has some sort of skill. They need to figure out what those are and build on them. No one can do that for them.
This isn't to be cruel, but it's a reality check. The only way they will succeed, is if they get out there and make themselves successful. Our society has become riddled with people who are too lazy to put in the effort required to make something of themselves. At the end of the day, unless they decide to change for themselves they will remain where they are now.
There are some people that you could give the opportunity to work and they would either come in and give half the effort required and then complain or not show up at all. The ones that will succeed will find their own opportunities.
You cannot change a person by giving them anything. A person changes when they decide to.
My reply to your original post and this one is this:
You seem angry, say hateful things, and you call people names like "lazy." I wonder why you would go onto a forum such as the Unemployment forum and kick people while they are down and suffering AND when you don't really know their circumstances. Many people are only marginally employable, and have sad lives because of it. Others can be "superior" acting towards these "the least of my bretheren" or they can just provide these poor souls a place to express themselves without censure. They suffer enough, and finally, there are places in the U.S. where a person who cannot do manual labor - and there are many who are unable to do such labor and not through laziness - and there are NO JOBS, not a clerking job at a 7-11, not a babysitting job, not any job. This is reality in too many areas of the U.S. right now.
After reading all the threads talking about people not able to find a job, it seems that there is a blatantly obvious pattern. Everyone is out to get them, all companies and employees are crooked while they are model employees who would make an excellent hire. Pay no attention to the rants and all the things they say on here which would be an obvious red flag to an employer. Ignore how easily they can trash talk a company because they didn't fit the job description.
Does anyone else see this, or is it just me?
Seriously people, if you really want a job check your attitude and conspiracy theories at the door and get on the hunt. The world is NOT out to get you. The choices you made at some point in your career led you down this path. Or, if not, the choices you will make after an unfortunate event will determine where your path leads you in the future. No one owes you anything. You owe it to yourself to shoulder the responsibility and get out there and fight through it.
Does it make you feel good to kick people when they're down?
My reply to your original post and this one is this:
You seem angry, say hateful things, and you call people names like "lazy." I wonder why you would go onto a forum such as the Unemployment forum and kick people while they are down and suffering AND when you don't really know their circumstances. Many people are only marginally employable, and have sad lives because of it. Others can be "superior" acting towards these "the least of my bretheren" or they can just provide these poor souls a place to express themselves without censure. They suffer enough, and finally, there are places in the U.S. where a person who cannot do manual labor - and there are many who are unable to do such labor and not through laziness - and there are NO JOBS, not a clerking job at a 7-11, not a babysitting job, not any job. This is reality in too many areas of the U.S. right now.
This is why the internet fails. You cannot read body language or hear a tone of voice on the internet. I'm not angry.... far from it actually. I am thankful for the job I have and my financial situation. I'm also mindful that I've worked hard for it.
I'm not kicking anyone whatsoever. My intentions have been the same as other posters - to try and get them to wake up and realize that they CAN make it, if only they will put forth the effort required to do so. If someone is marginally employable, how is that my (or your) fault? I've said before that I'm no better than anyone else. The difference between us is a mentality, and nothing more. They're just as capable in one way or another as the rest of us to contribute to society.
Expressing ones self is completely fine, but when people offer advice and then get criticized for being "hateful" and "uncompassionate" I will leave you to your own devices. Obviously they know better than we why they are unemployed and of course it's never their fault. They're victims, and will always be until they decide to change.
And the inability to perform manual labor is still no excuse to not look for something. I'm not going to continue to preach to the folks who don't want to hear it. If they're comfortable living the way they are, I'm comfortable letting them.
Some people simply come here to vent their frustration and find a shoulder or two to cry on, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that (sometimes that's what we all need as humans). If this bothers you, that's what the ignore list is for. They don't need insensitive bores coming on here to shame them from doing so.
I think it just goes along with the apathetic climate we deal with nowadays that seeks to vilify anyone who doesn't appear perfect (successful) in our vision, so we needn't spend any energy caring about their plight, let alone (gasp!) be asked to help them.
You can continue to take what I say out of context until your heart is content. I stand by every statement I've made thus far. Success means something different to everyone. You don't have to make $100k per year to be successful. But complaining about how miserable you are, while doing nothing to change your situation and refusing to listen to advice that doesn't go along with the response you hoped to get (pity) isn't the definition of success in anyone's vocabulary.
Have you ever heard the phrase "Help those, who help themselves?" That's how I try to live my life. I'll give the shirt of my back for someone struggling when I see that they are really trying to get a leg up. But I won't help when you won't make an attempt to help yourself.
If that's cold and callous, then I guess I'm your Huckleberry. I'd be willing to bet if more people took on this mentality you'd see people begin to pick themselves up when they figure out no one else is going to do it for them. I'll walk through it with you, but I won't carry you.
OP: In response to the question and in agreement with what you wrote, yes. Unfortunately. The same old moaners show up regularly spewing out the same old tired rants and, frankly, it just elicits a big yawn from me for the most part. Anyone who's been around the block and knows what they're talking about is labeled as "out of touch" so there's no point contributing! The people who are genuinely looking for an ear and advice (which they're prepared to consider) have their threads clogged up with all the negative nonsense.
After reading all the threads talking about people not able to find a job, it seems that there is a blatantly obvious pattern. Everyone is out to get them, all companies and employees are crooked while they are model employees who would make an excellent hire. Pay no attention to the rants and all the things they say on here which would be an obvious red flag to an employer. Ignore how easily they can trash talk a company because they didn't fit the job description.
Does anyone else see this, or is it just me?
Seriously people, if you really want a job check your attitude and conspiracy theories at the door and get on the hunt. The world is NOT out to get you. The choices you made at some point in your career led you down this path. Or, if not, the choices you will make after an unfortunate event will determine where your path leads you in the future. No one owes you anything. You owe it to yourself to shoulder the responsibility and get out there and fight through it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather
I have noticed there's been a MAJOR infiltration of self-righteous bootstrappers with sticks up their butts on this forum over the past year or so.
Its almost as if they all met at a McDonalds in Des Moines, IA during the Polar Vortex Blizzard this past winter and collectively decided that they would spend the gist of their days trolling an internet forum to attack and trivialize the struggles of complete strangers they know nothing about because they're so calloused from their own unfortunate life experiences.
I've noticed both. When you get down to it, both sides are pretty full of their own self-righteousness. But that's the internet - you get the extremes a lot.
A lot of the people on this board just want handholding and agreement, and that goes for both the flounderers and the bootstrappers.
The flounderers want someone to reassure them that their poor habits aren't their fault and that it's their environment and not them that is the source of their issues. Well, the truth is usually that it's a combination of the two. Too many people take unwise steps or don't make enough effort or won't compromise to get themselves out of a situation. One of my buddies was an executive who got laid off in the recession in 1999 (or whenever that recession was). In his 50s, he took a bunch of menial jobs to help support his family and eventually found his way back to an executive-level position after more than 5 years - yet I've frequently run into people who have turned their noses up at retail work and just doing what it takes because it would be a step down.
At the same time, you've got all these people who claim they never got any breaks and no one ever helped them, and that any hardworking person in that situation could do the same. That's usually a load of bull. Someone close to me really did come from a terrible background to make a stunning success of himself, and he thinks that he's just a regular guy who did a lot of hard work. YES, he was VERY hard working, but he also possesses an extremely charismatic personality and what I am certain is a VERY high IQ even though he did terribly in school - his capacity for learning and absorbing new information with ease is amazing. He also by chance met a couple of very key mentors at different points in his life that decided to take a chance on him, despite a shady juvenile record. Would someone with a similarly bad upbringing but no charisma and an average IQ and a lack of mentors be able to achieve what he has? I can say almost certainly not. I think in a lot of cases those success stories find there's a certain fruitlessness in being angry about their bad experiences and instead choose to focus their anger on the people who can't make it out of the same hole. They're here because they want that anger to be validated by the rest of us.
You have to make the right choices, but you also have to rely on luck and circumstance too. If you're persistent, you can OFTEN pull yourself out of a hole. But sometimes you can't, and one can't pretend there's a foolproof formula. I've watched one of the most hardworking people I know see his amazing accomplishments reduced to bankruptcy, debt and professional stagnation due to a freak accident that occurred after spending his life pulling himself out of the awful situation he was born into. It was just bad luck - he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Gee.......I wonder if that "whining" could be because there are more and more unemployed people out there and that the government manipulates numbers to reflect what they want us to hear? The actual numbers and the math that goes into them make my head hurt but I've heard actual unemployment estimates running as high as 23%. That's a lot of freaking people out of work.
I am not unemployed but I have been as recently as 3 years ago and let me tell you, it ain't easy out there. Especially when you're over 40. Things have changed in quite a few ways in today's job market. Gone are the days where you simply walk into a company, hand over your resume and hope that a hiring manager calls you. On the low end of the employment scale, most big box stores don't even have a hiring manager on premises. You fill out a 20 page application online (which crashes half the time) then fill out a 45 minute "personality profile" during which you also have the chance of being booted from the system. After a computer decides if you're right for the job and if you are, you face at least 2 0r 3 interviews with a local HR person who in all reality usually act as if they're doing you a huge favor by asking you unpleasant hypothetical questions like: What would you do if you found out that a fellow employee was stealing paperclips? Would you turn them in or keep the knowledge to yourself?
.....all that for some minimum wage, bottom of the ladder type work. 12 years ago, I was hired to run a retirement home with a 5 million operating budget without half the fuss. People are griping because the hiring process has largely lost it's human touch and because of the glut of candidates for decent jobs they can get so specifically picky it's ridiculous. Urine tests for nicotine, disclosure of social media sites, personality profiles, all robbing people of their humanity for the sake of a paycheck.
Does attitude matter? Of course it does and I'm sure that most of the people who come here to b*tch do so out of frustration. That doesn't mean that's the face they show when job hunting. Forums are largely anonymous, they give people a place to vent in what is surely a frustrating position.......and I for one, think that's a healthy outlet. So if you don't care to read about the trials and tribulations most job hunters face today there's a simple answer.........click the "forums" link at the top of the page and move along.
Last edited by Catdancer; 07-17-2014 at 03:51 PM..
I'm a bit surprised that some posters feel this is about kicking people when they're down, or not allowing people to vent when they're frustrated. I guess they're lumping everyone in the same group, which the op isn't doing.
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