Choice of a Performance Improvement Plan or Demotion (collect, unemployment, work)
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DO NOT TAKE A DEMOTION. You need to go through company policy to make sure they are following their OWN rules regarding the PIP/demotion procedure. If you have been getting good reviews (satisfactory and above), there is no reason for you to be on any PIP plan, especially without some type of warning ahead of time. You need to look over the company's discipline policy with a fine-toothed comb. This could be some type of retaliation, but that is VERY hard to prove. Make sure they are following the rules THEY created that outlined the proper procedure. That will be very valuable to you if you choose to pursue some type of action later.
Agreed in some large bureaucratic organizations you can use their system to your advantage. It could at least buy you enough time to find another job. You need to review your employee handbook regarding appeals of performance reviews and such. However, in the end it will only delay the inevitable. Time to leave.
Last edited by MSchemist80; 07-27-2014 at 01:30 PM..
Thanks everyone for your advice. Management has been very poor and incompetent. On Monday I plan to discuss this with HR with facts about performance. I believe it does not have to do with performance. Its either discrimination or retaliation. Also my job hunting has started.
HR want you gone as well. Management always discuss with HR before they start to fire somebody to make sure they are doing it the correct way
Want to provide an update. They still have not put me on a PIP but they are putting one together. According to HR they are taking awhile to put it together then legal needs to sign off on it. In the meantime I already have 3 interviews setup and one of them is for my dream company. I guess things happen for a reason and time to move on. The question is if the PIP presents itself before i get an offer should I sign it or not.
Want to provide an update. They still have not put me on a PIP but they are putting one together. According to HR they are taking awhile to put it together then legal needs to sign off on it. In the meantime I already have 3 interviews setup and one of them is for my dream company. I guess things happen for a reason and time to move on. The question is if the PIP presents itself before i get an offer should I sign it or not.
You have nothing to lose by signing it, IMO - unless it says something like you are ineligible for unemployment insurance if they let you go. I think signing it and attempting to 'improve' according to their improvement plan - is something you want to do to prolong your employment by another month or two - in time for you to continue job hunting. If you refuse to go along with the PIP, then maybe they fire you right away because you are saying you refuse attempts to improve.
I dont think they are going to give out your PIP to future job references - so I dont see what harm there is in signing. However, you always want to read what you are signing and make comments against these you disagree with when you sign. If you are unsure about signing it, tell them you would like a copy and want to sleep on it and think about it overnight before you sign the next day. Then maybe the next day - if there is something you feel strongly needs to be changed - ask them if they can tweak that part.
Want to provide an update. They still have not put me on a PIP but they are putting one together. According to HR they are taking awhile to put it together then legal needs to sign off on it. In the meantime I already have 3 interviews setup and one of them is for my dream company. I guess things happen for a reason and time to move on. The question is if the PIP presents itself before i get an offer should I sign it or not.
I am so happy for you. You took some real initiative by asking advice here. If that wasn't enough, you actually followed through on the great advice from people with years of experience. It's all working out for you. Many people ask for advice here, but they end up ignoring it.
When you get the offers, see if you can negotiate for more money.
When you leave, give 2 weeks notice to your current employer. Don't just stop showing up one day. They will mark you as ineligible for rehire due to job abandonment. It will cause issues in the future, when you conduct the next job hunt.
If the interviews don't work out, then start attending career development groups. You need to practice interviewing until you are good.
Want to provide an update. They still have not put me on a PIP but they are putting one together. According to HR they are taking awhile to put it together then legal needs to sign off on it. In the meantime I already have 3 interviews setup and one of them is for my dream company. I guess things happen for a reason and time to move on. The question is if the PIP presents itself before i get an offer should I sign it or not.
Are YOU the only one or is this a new thing your company is doing; going through the ranks and putting people on PIPs?
You can't decide to sign a PIP you haven't seen.
Is it measurable, in line with your existing job description, in line with other employees with the same job title or similarly situated employees? HOW LONG is the PIP for? A month or three months or what? Is there a clear cut weekly review of your deliverables during the PIP and with whom? Etc etc.
If they're big enough to have a "legal" it seems to me they should have given you data on your existing job performance and why you weren't satisfactory. THEN, hypothetically you'd know if you CAN meet those expectations or not. PIP or no PIP.
I'm the type of person who would make them EAT it and have my OWN data from now on and at least make them work hard to fire me.
Your mileage may vary and you're not as egotistical as I am.
If you can't meet the PIP then are you fired or demoted? You can't say because you haven't seen it.
Obviously if you take a demotion, and update your resume, you automatically will be looking for lesser jobs unless the job titles now and after are ambiguous. So why would you do it (unless the alternative is to get fired).
CAN YOU DO THE WORK?
You don't know because you haven't seen the PIP.
Is your performance a problem over soft issues like project management, communication, team work, not understanding the systems, reports, customer complaints etc?
Or is it because of something more concrete like...coding errors, writing bad requirements, missing deadlines, customer complaints?
Yeah both categories can be switched interchangeably. That's why PIPs can be tricky if you don't know what you're doing or if they attempt to measure work that isn't really measurable in the environment of a company with no quality management.
I would be fighting to have the PIP say I'd be demoted AFTER not succeeding with the PIP which should at least buy you about 6 months if you fail this PIP AND the demotion job. And no pay cut.
Your right I do not know what is in the PIP to know if I should sign it. I am pretty sure I can meet it unless it has some unreal expectations. As it is now I am one of the better employees. They still have not explained to me exactly what caused the PIP. Even before all this I had issues with my current manager. I hate that i have to report to him. Its best I move on. All this just lit a fire under me to look for another job. I have 3 interviews and keep on being contacted for other positions.
Even if you pass the PIP, there will still be a mark on your record for being on a PIP. You would likely only get a 1-2% salary increase at your annual review. You are definitely not the first in line for a promotion, after being placed on a PIP.
If you leave for another job, you could be looking at a $10-20k raise. With a clean slate and new relationships, you could be in line for a promotion at the new job. It would be another $5-10k raise.
DO NOT TAKE A DEMOTION. You need to go through company policy to make sure they are following their OWN rules regarding the PIP/demotion procedure. If you have been getting good reviews (satisfactory and above), there is no reason for you to be on any PIP plan, especially without some type of warning ahead of time. You need to look over the company's discipline policy with a fine-toothed comb. This could be some type of retaliation, but that is VERY hard to prove. Make sure they are following the rules THEY created that outlined the proper procedure. That will be very valuable to you if you choose to pursue some type of action later.
Great advice. Break out the company handbook and make sure they are adhering to their own best practices or guidelines. It's hard work for a manager to keep an employee on a PIP. They must spend a lot of time monitoring and documenting and meanwhile, their other job duties suffer. In most companies, retaliation is specifically mentioned as being unacceptable.
So. Keep them on their toes while you get on the ball as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80
Agreed in some large bureaucratic organizations you can use their system to your advantage. It could at least buy you enough time to find another job. You need to review your employee handbook regarding appeals of performance reviews and such. However, in the end it will only delay the inevitable. Time to leave.
Yes. It will buy you time to find another job. PIP's usually take a few months because they give you so many days (or months) to get your work up to par.
I do want to say that while I agree that in most cases, a PIP is the kiss of death; I'm currently working with a new manager who was, at one time, on a work improvement plan. But, the entire management team has changed and I don't even know if they know. So - he has certainly overcome! But that is the exeption rather than the rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssgmun5000
Want to provide an update. They still have not put me on a PIP but they are putting one together. According to HR they are taking awhile to put it together then legal needs to sign off on it. In the meantime I already have 3 interviews setup and one of them is for my dream company. I guess things happen for a reason and time to move on. The question is if the PIP presents itself before i get an offer should I sign it or not.
Wow. They are taking their good old time putting one together! Read it carefully before you sign. Actually, ask if you can take it home or have the day to review it and let them know the following day IF you are wiling to sign.
I always had a good skill set but just needed experience. This position has given me that in a short time. One of the positives of my current position is the learning. I have learned so much in a short time. I always new that I was underpaid but stayed knowing that the experience was going to pay off. The jobs/interviews I have been looking pay 20-30%+ more than I make.
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