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Old 08-15-2014, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Eastern Colorado
3,887 posts, read 5,735,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NilaJones View Post
Why on earth would you want to skip college?
It is not about wanting to skip college, it is about the reality that not everybody is cut out to sit in a classroom, as well as not having the capabilities to pay for 4-7 years of college, then there are some that have no interest in working in an office the rest of their lives. Fact is even today almost half of all high school graduates do not attend college, and it is the highest rate in the history of this country.
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Old 08-16-2014, 06:50 PM
 
6,732 posts, read 9,977,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwiley View Post
It is not about wanting to skip college, it is about the reality that not everybody is cut out to sit in a classroom, as well as not having the capabilities to pay for 4-7 years of college, then there are some that have no interest in working in an office the rest of their lives. Fact is even today almost half of all high school graduates do not attend college, and it is the highest rate in the history of this country.
Ok. I recognise that people learn in different ways. But why not one of the no-classroom-sitting colleges?

Most of the college grads I know do not work in offices .

Maybe I am weird -- I grew up in a culture where college was considered to be primarily about self-development and becoming an empowered citizen in a democracy. Learning skills for a future career was secondary, although necessary for those of us who have to pay back our student loans ourselves.

Don't most/all of the jobs on that list require education past high school, most cheaply acquired at a community college?
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Old 08-16-2014, 06:58 PM
 
Location: So Cal
52,011 posts, read 52,464,357 times
Reputation: 52525
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilaJones View Post
Why on earth would you want to skip college?
And while I'm sure your heart is in the right place here... do you realize that college isn't for everyone??? no judgemnts... just facts... some people do better with hands on experience.. things that a union apprenticeship can do better than....

Just because someone is alive doesn't' mean that college is the bet fit.. I think we as a society have sort of lost focus on what is important in terms of development of our young people... I'm the first to say college.... I'm also the first to say trade school when applicatble... I say this with no judgments and or ****ty attitudes toward It...

I like the treads in term of learing cause it seems less judgy.. than other things...
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Old 08-16-2014, 08:57 PM
 
7,915 posts, read 7,776,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwiley View Post
It is not about wanting to skip college, it is about the reality that not everybody is cut out to sit in a classroom, as well as not having the capabilities to pay for 4-7 years of college, then there are some that have no interest in working in an office the rest of their lives. Fact is even today almost half of all high school graduates do not attend college, and it is the highest rate in the history of this country.
Huh? That's not the highest rate. At no point did a majority of people attend college as a country. State perhaps. In Mass we have about a 40% rate with a bachelors degree 8% with a masters. the only other place higher is DC.

Much of the work in the country is done in an office when you factor in automation. Even if you are a mechanic you still have to learn about computers. Smart phones are just the first step. Once we get to a internet of things you pretty much have to deal with technology.

I'm not saying that everyone has to attend higher ed but I'd recommend reading books like Average is Over. The investment level in positions without a degree is lower. Much of what is in the trades is regulated on license and if that's removed frankly it could be automated or made to the point where it is not that big of a deal to perform it by yourself. Typing was once considered a skill. Now anyone past grade school is expected.Programming has creeped in just as foreign languages. How much has plumbing changed in the past 100 years yes there's more accurate water meters with wifi but that is besides the point.

Even if someone does find stable work in the trades how long does the wear and tear last on the body? I once has a supervisor that left his job at the age of 40 to go back and do construction. Yes he was pretty fit but how long was that really going to last? All it takes is one accident to put someone out. I know of people that fell out of scissor lifts, got hit in the head with an ibeam etc. Sure you get paid more in the short run to be paid for that risk.

Besides if more entered the trades instead of higher ed then the labor pool would grow and wages would drop. We already saw what happened when the housing bubble burst so to have something on that scale if not moreso occur people in those professions would not tolerate it. The job security in them is largely based on government regulation.Once you take that away in the a world if diy'ers thanks to the internet wages would drop like a rock.
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Old 08-16-2014, 09:13 PM
 
6,732 posts, read 9,977,037 times
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I work in the trades. I don't think I have ever met anyone in the trades under 40 who hadn't been to at least a few years of college. Yes, in the old days you could do it... but that was before I was born.
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Old 08-16-2014, 11:58 PM
 
13 posts, read 13,841 times
Reputation: 18
the list is a ****ing joke. it's also a joke that people generally don't believe you can get good paying jobs without a degree. this like this just go to show us how much of a bubble most of us have been made to think it. george orwell's 1984 never ceases to be at least partially accurate about societies mentality. disgusting.

i make well into six figures with a degree but work with people who don't. the box had 5 sides, bros.
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Old 08-17-2014, 01:47 AM
 
1,488 posts, read 1,959,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
One thing to keep in mind is that these people with only high school diplomas occupying these "high-paying jobs" likely got them when the economy was good and employers were hiring anyone who could stand on two feet and breathe through their nose due to the low rate of unemployment.

So basically, this data isn't very useful for graduates in the post-recession economy.

This is true but there are still plenty of high paying jobs out there that don't require college. The problem is they aren't just standing out there like a neon light for everyone to see. One of the biggest glaring problems in the USA today is lack of education for young adults in the area's that are crucial to success in life. For example, why isn't it mandatory for there to be a"basic finances" class in HS.

That class should teach kids about budgeting income, how credit cards work, mortgages etc. Just like that class, there are no classes that teach kid's about self-education and doing your own research. If kids today decided to do some serious research on their own regarding good jobs that don't require college; they could find plenty in literally less time than it would take to complete one college course. Yet, most will slave away towards a 4 year degree before giving any serious thought regarding exactly what type of career would be optimal for them.
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Old 08-17-2014, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,823,970 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Oilfield, I agree is a good one.. And, from what I understand, there's not a WHOLE lot of competition for them right now. They're booming and since they're mostly in the Dakotas where not a whole lot of people want to be.. They're having a real hard time getting people... Seriously, some of the companies are doing a SUATMM thing. Even fast food is getting $15/hr up there. Apparently not a high risk of being fired, either, because they can't get people in there fast enough
The Dakotas right now have high wages but they also have high with rent costs AND campsites. This is because of the demand and lack of supply. As mdowell mentioned, many end up in man-camps because they are cheap. However, many give up and move back after several months. I have a video linked to this. If you don't get a job, the Salvation Army is paying for your bus ticket out. (Sources: CNN, Huffington Post and Reuters)

The reason I quit working in the ND oilfield - YouTube
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Old 08-17-2014, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,823,970 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilaJones View Post
Why on earth would you want to skip college?
Throwing out college not being a fit learning style, costs. This graph from Mother Jones shows the problem with the costs.

From 1980, the costs have shot up an average 600% to today. Whether it is or isn't related to the ease of debt is for debate, but the fact is costs are astronomical today. Now yes, a two year degree is cheaper but many places today want a four-year degree as well so you will have to pay the astronomical costs but perhaps lower. That said if you are lower middle class/middle class, you can't exactly save or college NOR can you actually get grants on need alone. If you can't then you have to hope for academic scholarships. If you don't, you have to get loans, do community college and transfer out, do community college only, or forgo college altogether.
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Old 08-17-2014, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,823,970 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon652 View Post
This is true but there are still plenty of high paying jobs out there that don't require college. The problem is they aren't just standing out there like a neon light for everyone to see. One of the biggest glaring problems in the USA today is lack of education for young adults in the area's that are crucial to success in life. For example, why isn't it mandatory for there to be a"basic finances" class in HS.

That class should teach kids about budgeting income, how credit cards work, mortgages etc. Just like that class, there are no classes that teach kid's about self-education and doing your own research. If kids today decided to do some serious research on their own regarding good jobs that don't require college; they could find plenty in literally less time than it would take to complete one college course. Yet, most will slave away towards a 4 year degree before giving any serious thought regarding exactly what type of career would be optimal for them.
The reason you don't see that is because there's too many courses you need. BEFORE NCLB New York had regents (pretty sure they still do) My brother went before me and needed 4 units (years) of English and History/Social Studies, 3 units of math, 2 units of science, 2 units of gym (4 years as they were half units,) .5 units of health, 1 unit of foreign language and I think 2 units of arts. I had the same just the 2 units of science became 3 and the art units became 1. I still did chorus all four years and my brother did 2 years of photography and 2 years of chorus. On top of the state credits, there were tons of mandatory electives like 12th grad math, various computers (some with technology we mostly never use) and futures (which was kind of sort of what you think should be forced but it wasn't hard.) It was a breath, you get an A. Chorus was MUCH harder without including sectionals.

I agree we should see this, but we have too many bloated classes that are not important in the schedules and don't count to credits. With states moving to common core (for better and worse) I see the same issue of having the standard classes.
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