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Of course globalization has had an affect on working class Americans, but both union and non-union have lost out to this. You cannot place this burden on unions, because everyone has been affected. However, unions are still a great way to protect working class Americans from the unjust actions of employers. As wages rise in countries jobs have been outsourced to manufacturing will return as shipping costs will no longer offset profits.
Should we not be entitled to work in the greatest economic power in the world? Or should only the wealthy be entitled, and the masses become working class slaves and the current trend is taking us? Do you think the current wage inequality is acceptable, and it's continued growth, or should it be addressed and bring back respect for working class Americans? Do you respect the man who picks up your trash, pumps your gas, or serves your meal? Should these positions pay so little they qualify for government food and healthcare?
This is where the 1% ideal you support fails. A man's toil should be sufficient to support his family whether it is in food service, shoe repair, or the building trades. The argument that shareholders are more important, and any moron can do that job is foolish.
The 1% ideal I support? Maybe you union supporters should look at where the national leaders that you support every paycheck stand. They are the 1% and they give you and your cohorts your marching orders, but keep acting as if anybody who does not agree with your 1%er leaders have to say as being behind a different group of the 1%.
I have long been a supporter of the self employed, the true little guys that work everyday to make their lives better, most of them are no where near the 1%, but they sure have been getting screwed by the 1% and their followers for the last 40 years, which includes all your unions supporters who help elect government officials who than put protectionist policies in place that continue to hurt the rest of the country.
AS for the wage inequality being acceptable, I do not find it acceptable, and in fact do everything I can to change it, but I do not try to change it by backing some 1 percenter that tells me what I want to hear, I also do not go into elections voting for some guy that pays lip service to the rest of us while he lines his pockets with donations from 1 percenters in return for promises on future actions, nope I do it with my check book. I shop in small businesses, I call small businesses to provide the services I need around the office and my house, and I refer out the ones who do a good job as much as possible. But keep paying that 1 percenter a nice portion of your paycheck to keep telling you what you want to hear.
Supply and demand. If you are unskilled and low-educated, unions are a great deal because they will prop your wage above what the market would normally pay. The UAW minted more than a few millionaires in Metro Detroit who had zero skills, education or motivation.
However, if you are highly educated/experienced and have skills that are in short supply, the union is not in your best interest. In these cases, the unions will mainly work to protect the interests of the weakest link in the chains, and your earnings will be limited if you are a high performer. It will also disincentivize people to work harder or achieve more since performance is not linked to pay. This is why I have never understood teacher's unions.
What about Mike Ilich? ever hear of him. He is from Detroit and was not a union member. He did not go to Collage just a HS diploma. Now he is a billioner who owns little caesars pizza, the Detroit Redwings, The Detroit Tigers, The Fox Theater, Hockey Town cafe. So you are wrong on your Analogy that low educated people cannot become successful in Detroit without having belong to a union. I just proved you wrong. If he can do it what is stoping others to do it in Detroit. oh one more thing his wife own the Motor City casino in Detroit.Thats right just a HS diploma.
What about Mike Ilich? ever hear of him. He is from Detroit and was not a union member. He did not go to Collage just a HS diploma. Now he is a billioner who owns little caesars pizza, the Detroit Redwings, The Detroit Tigers, The Fox Theater, Hockey Town cafe. So you are wrong on your Analogy that low educated people cannot become successful in Detroit without having belong to a union. I just proved you wrong. If he can do it what is stoping others to do it in Detroit. oh one more thing his wife own the Motor City casino in Detroit.Thats right just a HS diploma.
First of all, I never said low educated people in Detroit can't become successful without a union. I just used Detroit and the UAW of an example of how much low skilled workers benefited from a union. (And VERY few of those jobs exist anymore, BTW. The auto companies can no longer afford to pay people $100K to push a broom.) Secondly, yes, if you're one of the .0000001% of people like Mike Ilitch who happen to be born a brilliant entrepreneur, you can get fabulously rich without an education.
First of all, I never said low educated people in Detroit can't become successful without a union. I just used Detroit and the UAW of an example of how much low skilled workers benefited from a union. (And VERY few of those jobs exist anymore, BTW. The auto companies can no longer afford to pay people $100K to push a broom.) Secondly, yes, if you're one of the .0000001% of people like Mike Ilitch who happen to be born a brilliant entrepreneur, you can get fabulously rich without an education.
One thing you forgot the people that are UAW members are just not the person you see on the assembly line. There are also electricians, pipe fitters known as plumbers in other jobs, there are tool and die makers. These jobs require more than a HS diploma and are highly paid jobs. In the auto industry and other fields. So unions are not just got as you say lazy high paid loafers. Im sorry that a person makes more than lets say you,with a higher education. Why don't you go and work on the assembly line Chrysler was hiring. But you would have to relocate to Michigan if you can lower your self to do that. I know anyone with out a collage degree is not supposed to make a decent wage that a union job provides.
One thing you forgot the people that are UAW members are just not the person you see on the assembly line. There are also electricians, pipe fitters known as plumbers in other jobs, there are tool and die makers. These jobs require more than a HS diploma and are highly paid jobs.
Quite familiar with the UAW system having worked in it for a short period of time. Part of the problem was the skilled trades didn't make much more than the marginal unskilled employees, which meant there was little incentive to go into the skilled trades at most plants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vannort54
In the auto industry and other fields. So unions are not just got as you say lazy high paid loafers. Im sorry that a person makes more than lets say you,with a higher education..
I said...none of these things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vannort54
Why don't you go and work on the assembly line Chrysler was hiring...
Because, I don't need a job. I'm very well compensated, but thanks for the offer. Anyway, all new assembly line hires make ~ $15/hour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vannort54
But you would have to relocate to Michigan if you can lower your self to do that. I know anyone with out a collage degree is not supposed to make a decent wage that a union job provides....
I've already "lowered" myself as I currently live in the great state of Michigan. It's a lovely place to live!! Anyway, never said anyone without a "collage" degree isn't supposed to make a decent wage. I did say it's difficult to make a decent wage without higher education these days. I'm guessing whatever you do for a living doesn't require much reading comprehension. Sheesh.
What about organized owners, say a trade association or a industry lobbying group? That would be the same thing, wouldn't it?
Do Trade Associations or industry lobbyists advocate handing their member corporations over to an umbrella organization to control, direct and govern them? Do they request lucrative contracts be awarded round-robin fashion starting with the company that has been in business the longest? Do they lobby to give up the right to file Chapter 11 on the basis that all other member corporations will hold up the failing company though profit sharing?
I don't think you quite understand the concept of communism as a political philosophy, nor how it applies to organized labour in practice.
Quite familiar with the UAW system having worked in it for a short period of time. Part of the problem was the skilled trades didn't make much more than the marginal unskilled employees, which meant there was little incentive to go into the skilled trades at most plants.
I said...none of these things.
Because, I don't need a job. I'm very well compensated, but thanks for the offer. Anyway, all new assembly line hires make ~ $15/hour.
I've already "lowered" myself as I currently live in the great state of Michigan. It's a lovely place to live!! Anyway, never said anyone without a "collage" degree isn't supposed to make a decent wage. I did say it's difficult to make a decent wage without higher education these days. I'm guessing whatever you do for a living doesn't require much reading comprehension. Sheesh.
Resistance to collective bargaining means they have given back the gains made through unionization over the years. You will find non-union "salaried" workers putting in 60 hour work weeks, oblivious to the fact that their corporate masters are exploiting them into an early grave. You will find employees stuck in "part time" jobs to keep their hours below the trigger point where labor laws would mandate fringe benefits. Big money lobbyists have pushed through "right to work" laws that cut the feet out from under collective bargaining, and if you even talk about organizing at many companies you will be out the door so fast it will make your head swim.
My brother worked as a master tech at a Ford dealer in Texas. The union tried to organize them but, in the words of one of the mechanics, they "ran them out of town". These are the same guys who had their vacation time revoked at one point. No backbone. Lackeys for the GOP.
Interesting how people oppose collective bargaining for workers, yet they're fine with shareholders forming a "corporation" which is a form of collectivization.
A union and a corporation negotiating is exactly the same as two corporations negotiating with one another. A worker trying to negotiate with a corporation is absurd. Everybody is expendable and replaceable.
Exactly. Equal right for the employee and employer to terminate the employment contract. If at-will didn't exist, I would be stuck working for my previous employer. It's hard to make forward moves.
Are you saying you needed an At-will employment agreement in order to quit a job so you could work for someone else. SERIOUSLY? Ever heard of I QUIT, I found another job, take this job and......?
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