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Old 09-16-2014, 04:00 PM
 
5,342 posts, read 6,149,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabiya View Post
It's not easy, however, it's not worth it. My husband went to DeVry, got kicked out (long story) and every day he thanks his lucky stars that the school kicked him out early. He didn't owe much money.

He paid it all off easily, while his colleagues went on to graduate with degrees in Programming, $60k+ in debt and having a terrible time finding jobs, because most of the programming jobs goes to India or China.

A good thing about DeVry though is that some of its classes DO transfer to state university so he got some credits. Now he's going for ThermoDynamics/Physics... don't really know but he wants to study Energy. One of his dreams is to create a sustainable energy source that doesn't hurt the environment and is applicable to anything from cars to planes to microwaves to computers, etc.
Why do people say the bolded? My brother is a software engineer and does a ton of programming. He works in the US and got paid near 6 figures right out of grad school in Atlanta. The very basic programming might get outsourced but the really technical builds and innovative designs are still largely here. He said they send their very basic work over to China, but anything beyond basic programming they do themselves.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Lawless Wild West
659 posts, read 938,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post
Why do people say the bolded? My brother is a software engineer and does a ton of programming. He works in the US and got paid near 6 figures right out of grad school in Atlanta. The very basic programming might get outsourced but the really technical builds and innovative designs are still largely here. He said they send their very basic work over to China, but anything beyond basic programming they do themselves.
People say it, because it's true in most cases. A lot of his colleagues that graduated with degrees in Programming and Software Engineering cannot get jobs anywhere in this state or country. One person moved back to his home town, gave up on Programming, and now co-owns a T-shirt design company that even after 5 years, has yet to take off or make that much profit.

Some of them went back to school for something else, others went into retail, and so on. Very few got lucky with good paying jobs. It also didn't help that they came from DeVry to begin with.
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Old 09-16-2014, 05:33 PM
 
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In all honesty I would not suggest that engineering, accounting and computer science are a matter of technically smarts but rather being pretty patient.
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Old 09-16-2014, 06:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabiya View Post
People say it, because it's true in most cases. A lot of his colleagues that graduated with degrees in Programming and Software Engineering cannot get jobs anywhere in this state or country. One person moved back to his home town, gave up on Programming, and now co-owns a T-shirt design company that even after 5 years, has yet to take off or make that much profit.

Some of them went back to school for something else, others went into retail, and so on. Very few got lucky with good paying jobs. It also didn't help that they came from DeVry to begin with.
Well he had 2 job offers and was very close to a position at Walmart e-commerce in San Bruno before he even graduated. I find it odd that he could find that many options when people keep saying the jobs don't exist.
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Old 09-16-2014, 06:12 PM
 
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Quote:
However, bachelors degree from a decent university program will take you much farther than a HS diploma.
Too many believe this, and that is the reason they take degrees in areas that are considered useless degrees. The reason that they are called useless degrees, is there is a huge supply of degree holders, and a very small demand for people with those degrees.

Having a useless degree such as an art degree, will not help you in many other fields. People with the degrees in those other fields will be offered the job. I have a son that went to law school and decided he would rather study art. Went back to school in an art program, specializing in sculpture.

To make a living, he opened an art gallery in a tourist area of the country, for his basic living. He does life size sculptures as his love. He has had many commissions over the years for cities, universities, and especially for memorials. He does the sculpture, then he does the casting and finishing himself. As he does it all, he can do it for less than an artist that has other people cast for him, and finish for him, and still make a good amount of money. He gets the commissions from the different cities and organizations, based on two things. His quality of the sculpture, and the quality of the casting and finishing are well known. He then is in competition with other artists for his price bid, which is usually the one they choose.

He has said, he has a useless degree as far as going out and getting a job goes. But by opening his gallery, his one man foundry which does work for others as well as himself, and being able to beat out other sculptors for getting commissions he does well.

Some useless degrees may not get you a job, but can be used other ways such as my son has used his. But as my son says, it is a useless degree to go out and get a job.

I keep seeing on these threads, people complaining they cannot get a job and are trying to get into other fields. I see an awful lot of them are trying to get jobs that require a degree in that field, and the simply cannot understand why their degree can not get them the job even if they have not knowledge or experience in the field. They think someone should hire them and train them in the other field, and complain no one wants t o hire and train people like them. A couple of sentences later in their post, say that as soon as they can get trained they will leave and get a higher paid job. Who would want to train them for a couple of years, to have them leave as soon as they are trained.

In addition so many of them complain, that when they can get a job in another field they are only paid what a high school graduate is paid, and because they have a degree they are owed more. That is stupid thinking. An employer is only going to pay the going rate for the job you are hired for. If you are basically a trainee and the job can be done by you or a high school graduate, your degree is worthless to get a higher pay check than the high school graduate. You are being paid what you are worth to the company. The fact you have a degree in some useless filed, does not make you worth more than a high school graduate for the job you are being hired for. Just because you have college loans and the other person does not, does not make you worth more pay.
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Old 09-16-2014, 06:50 PM
 
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Okay,

I haven't read this entire thread, and I apologize if this is a repeat post, but, even though I've done my fair share of whining over my degree and career choices, I don't think I should call my degree "worthless." It's taught me many life and career skills that I would not have gotten otherwise. Literature really does give a person about the workings of the human mind. Plus, the Education classes did teach me how to organize and present information. I know how to teach basic reading and comprehension skills, how to read and take notes on a college-level textbook, how to research topics and write papers, how to be a more conscientious consumer of information, how to break down information so that it is easier to understand, etc.

Do I think it was worth the money I had to pay? No, I do not. I recommend that if you get an arts degree, make sure you are able to pay for it on your own. In hindsight, I did not make a smart decision by taking out student loans to do it. I thought that because I was majoring in something that would "make me a teacher," I would have a job waiting when I got out, but that did not happen. Yes, I could have done better had I tried.
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Old 09-16-2014, 07:25 PM
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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Basic accounting isn't that hard. I know someone from high school who became an accountant, not the brightest person I've known, though she must have matured at least a bit. Being an english writing major, or some other liberal arts degrees at a good school may be harder. Engineering varies in difficulty enormous.
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Old 09-16-2014, 07:28 PM
 
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If we're defining 'useless' as 'hard to get a job', then we should probably include Business majors as well. The total number of degrees in literature, philosophy, gender studies and the like per year is a tiny, tiny fraction of the number of bachelors degrees in Business given each year -- too many archeology majors is not the reason the unemployment rate of college grads is up.

When you look at the stats, business majors don't do *that* much better than liberal arts majors in post-graduation employment rates, and if you separate out the "business" students who specialized in accounting and finance, the rest of the business majors might as well have studied poli-sci or english and at least enjoyed their classes more.

At the graduate level it's different, I'd definitely take an MBA's employment odds over a the chances of a Masters in Literature. But despite being 'practical' and 'pre-professional', the undergrad business degree doesn't necessarily buy you much.
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Old 09-16-2014, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Chicago - Logan Square
3,396 posts, read 7,192,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabiya View Post
He paid it all off easily, while his colleagues went on to graduate with degrees in Programming, $60k+ in debt and having a terrible time finding jobs, because most of the programming jobs goes to India or China.
The jobs that go to India (or Eastern Europe, not China really) tend to be very straightforward large scale projects that have an insane amount of documentation. Successfully offshoring a job requires massive documentation, along with low expectations for the UI that you'll get. There are probably as many domestic IA, project management, technical writing, and design jobs created in any offshored job as there would be engineering jobs if done in the US.
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Old 09-16-2014, 08:15 PM
 
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Default Interpersonal Skills is a must

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attrill View Post
The ability to write coherently can take you a long way in a lot of fields. The vast majority of STEM jobs are not pure science and require interacting with people who don't have a STEM background. If you don't have the ability to understand others and communicate clearly with them, your usefulness to any company is pretty limited.

About a decade ago I got promoted from department head to upper management and had to recommend a replacement for the department. I went with a guy who wasn't the strongest programmer, but he could write well and had a lot of experience outside of work managing regional Burning Man type events. Basically he could communicate well and resolve conflicts, so he got the job. He worked out great because he was well rounded and could relate to a wide variety of people. No matter what anyone chooses to study basic skills like that will go a long way.
That is so true. People with STEM jobs and degrees doesn't always have great communication skills. One factor could be due to their personality type. My husband works in the science field and he often mentions how many of his colleagues are introverts, or just socially awkward. Certainly, there is nothing bad about that, but to proclaim that STEM people are better and smarter is an unfair assessment. It makes it sound as though they are more valuable than others who chose different career paths. I don't disagree with the notion of STEM people making lucrative salaries. My husband is one of them. I'm not complaining, lol. However, the STEM=better stereotype shouldn't be encouraged. Making lots of money is only good if that is one's ultimate goal. Otherwise, if one is not happy working in the STEM field then what benefit is that to anyone? Imagine a world with just geeks and nerds; no artists, chefs, musicians, etc... What a dull and depressing place that would be! We truly must pursue our passion and what we are good at doing. The money will follow.

Definitely get as much Math and Science in school/college as that is always useful in any career as well as in all aspects of life. Combine that with great communication and interpersonal skills and surely you will standout and be easily recognized. My husband is in upper management and have worked with and interviewed numerous college grads who exudes the self-entitled I-have-a-science/math-with-PhD-MD attitude, therefore I deserve a job pronto. Zero charisma; poor communication skills! Quite a few have typos and grammatical errors on their resume and cover letter Needless to say, arrogant people STEM or not don't get a second interview.
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