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Old 10-25-2014, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Lawless Wild West
661 posts, read 699,854 times
Reputation: 984

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Managerial Accounting and Legal and Ethical Issues are community college courses, I just took them and finished at my community college. I'm surprised they teach basic courses at the MBA level!
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Old 10-25-2014, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Chicago area
8,197 posts, read 12,407,870 times
Reputation: 14768

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcoDV0dhWPA
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Old 10-25-2014, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
752 posts, read 594,887 times
Reputation: 1188
Quote:
Originally Posted by NavySeal77 View Post
I have an B.S. in Computer Science and an MBA. Why do people hate MBA's? It was certainly harder than my B.S. in CS for sure. I am sure it would be harder than a BA in Management. There are non-MBA's who are also horrible Managers. An MBA does not make a good Manager but I for one feel as though I understand certain caveats about business...most of the work was based on case studies on what works and has failed in the business world. I understand how the various elements of an organization function and why. It opened up a new world for me. It also allowed me to break out of the individual contributor function and into a project management and analytics focused role...with it came a decent increase in the level of pay. However, I have yet to see the steady 120K/yr job as those do not exist anyone unless you go to Harvard.

I had one guy tell me he could learn about all of the following stuff below in a three day seminar which was my 3 year program BTW...not including seminar courses...these are the courses I took.

Managerial Accounting
Operations Management
Economics for Managers
Quantitative Techniques
Financial Management
Compensation and Benefits Analysis
International Management
Legal and Ethical Issues
Human Resource Management
Management Information Systems
OS Information Management
Organizational Behavior


I do now want to break into quantitative analytics but would need a MS in Math, Stats or Engineering...If I would do it again I would not do the MBA but it sure has been valuable...but as for the hatred, I don't get it.
The "hate" for MBAs is similar to the scorn that police get or the scorn that newly minted 2nd lieutenant might see from enlisted men.

A large number of MBA new grads with little real-world experience, comprising an unknown percentage of all MBA holders, managed to jump directly into leadership positions. For any of multiple possible reasons, they failed to adequately adapt and apply the contents of their education to the needs of their new environments. Failures are much easier to notice than success but a large number of noticeable failures can be easily perceived as something universal to the entire group: Bad apples ruining the barrel, same as cops and 2LTs.

This is enhanced by what could be a harmless image issue. Many MBAs are hired and inserted right into the middle of the natural pecking order of an establishment. Every company has quirks of how daily tasks are done and a new guy in a leadership position will be highly visible while they are fumbling around or even legitimately asking questions. Someone who was internally promoted, with or without an MBA, would have no such issue to deal with.

There are other multipliers that make the image problem much worse. Leadership seminars for MBAs likely push the Harvard model of leadership where one is expected to exude, even ooze, confidence out of every pore in all situations. If this confidence is misapplied, some leaders will take it to mean that they should insist that they were correct even when they clearly made the problem-causing decision. Naturally, that person would then be perceived as arrogant on top of incompetent.

Another one is due to basic social/office politics. Maybe the MBA holder did not give enough consideration to suggestions by more veteran subordinates, or fails to adequately address the concern through debate or action. If things work out well, the issue is forgotten. If a problem occurs later and the subordinates were correct, a long-term image problem is created.

Finally, being in a leadership position, these managers typically are in a stronger position to preserve themselves over their subordinates. True or not, the perception is that said incompetent leader may toss subordinates in order to save his/her own skin especially if that leader was in denial about being the root cause of a crisis.

I think the whole stereotype has moderated a little over the last 5 years or so. People will recognize a difference between people who graduated from undergrad straight into an MBA program, and MBAs held by people with prior real world experience. In addition, diploma mill MBAs are held in greater contempt than in the past and word on the street is that these diplomas do nothing to enhance a person's career.

Last edited by DriveNotCommute; 10-25-2014 at 02:57 PM.. Reason: added office politics comment
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Old 10-25-2014, 02:57 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
2,371 posts, read 1,641,120 times
Reputation: 4657
I'm not going to vilify someone with an MBA degree because doing so would be like vilifying everyone wearing yellow shirts just because one person with a yellow shirt is a jerk.

I know some MBAs who are extremely intelligent and decent, volunteer in their community, and are generally really good people. The degree is to help focus their knowledge base and give them some academic background to complement their real world experience. I've known of some MBAs who lead altruistic organizations and causes and their financial background helps them and their organizations do some great work, but they use their academic background for good rather than the bad 1980's mantra that "greed is good".

I think the MBAs who are hated on are the people who consider themselves to be superior to all the disposable "little people" (as they see them) who they are going to be managing. In some cases, these people rise to management ranks of an organization for political or nepotism reasons (daddy buys the company and retires and leaves it to junior). Once there, since they see themselves as "the new sheriff in town", layoff their most productive and innovative people, and then wonder why the company is suddenly in decline. They do all of this because they think they've mastered the management fad of the month, but horribly apply these concepts, often because they feel a biased need to imprint their ego and exert their authority, ignoring the input of their "subordinates", even if the results are disastrous.

That's not to say that organizational leadership shouldn't initiate change, because it's often necessary. The wisdom lies in knowing when to change things and when things are working greatly and should be left alone. Also, both of these scenarios are based on the values and wisdom or foolishness of the degree holder, rather than the the degree itself.

Last edited by Jowel; 10-25-2014 at 03:06 PM..
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Old 10-25-2014, 03:54 PM
Status: "Busy being triggered by pumpkins" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
17,345 posts, read 8,536,890 times
Reputation: 18084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moby Hick View Post
So, you stopped contributing and got paid more and now wonder why nobody else thought that was a win?
Where does he say he stopped contributing? Handling project management and the analytical portion of work is a major contribution.
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Old 10-25-2014, 04:08 PM
 
2,538 posts, read 3,884,560 times
Reputation: 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by eureka1 View Post
No one hates MBA's. That's nonsense.
Actually they do, but not the way the OP probably thinks. The real issue is that modern business schools were churning out people like Jeffrey Skilling and Dick Fuld by the tens of thousands. Many MBA programs are still this way. They teach people that the bottom line and short term success is all that matters. It basically dehumanizes the student and turns them in to a corporate hatch-man. I've seen Harvard MBAs absolutely destroy a successful company single handedly.
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Old 10-25-2014, 04:09 PM
 
2,538 posts, read 3,884,560 times
Reputation: 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by NavySeal77 View Post
However, I have yet to see the steady 120K/yr job as those do not exist anyone unless you go to Harvard.
If you believe that then you haven't been looking very hard or you are in the wrong industry.
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Old 10-25-2014, 04:11 PM
 
3,119 posts, read 4,063,019 times
Reputation: 2547
Where I'm from they are respected. The only reason I can think is jealousy. I kind of roll my eyes though when I hear about a poor student who doesn't seem to care going to get one at a no name school.
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Old 10-25-2014, 04:58 PM
 
687 posts, read 652,843 times
Reputation: 2243
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
The only time I've seen resentment toward people with higher degrees is when the person without one feels threatened or jealous. They don't like dealing with a person who is on a whole other level than they are. It's best not to even deal with that garbage.
What if you have a person with an MBA who's jealous of their subordinates who are actually competent in their field/s because they're the ones doing the day-to-day work?

What if Mr. MBA has lost all touch with his boots-on-the-ground people and can no longer effectively manage them because they are too absorbed in textbook theory instead of involved with reality on the ground in their organization?

Quote:
You'll also find a group who tell you all MBA's are a waste of time and money because they never had one and they're at the top of their organization or they make six figures or what have you. There's a reason they feel defensive, but it's their problem, not yours.
Maybe these folks got where they are due to competence rather than ash-kissing and degree fluffing. I wouldn't call that "being defensive."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moby Hick View Post
So, you stopped contributing and got paid more and now wonder why nobody else thought that was a win?
Yep, MobyHick got it exactly right, please see my comments above. Thanks.
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Old 10-25-2014, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,437 posts, read 15,036,253 times
Reputation: 11924
MBA isn't a directly applicable degree. Just my experience, but nowadays you're better off with a specialized skill than a generalized one. An MBA is a generalized skill. If you've got other qualifications, sure it might be beneficial. As far as people just out of college, however, immediately going and getting an MBA with no real skillset, I think that's a tough sell. If you've got a degree in CS, some years of programming experience, then the MBA might be great for spinning into project management. If you have an undergraduate degree in business administration, no real work experience, and an MBA... who wants that?

Then you have the typical scenario where non-technical people are managing those with technical skills. One of the big problems working in government, for example, is you're under some MBA bean counter, and since government payscales are all common knowledge, everyone knows the rank and file technical employees are out earning the MBA manager who has no clue what they do but is supposed to manage them. Private sector seems to have moved away from that a little bit, but it's still the norm in the public sector. It just creates a toxic situation where you have technically skilled people out earning their managers, especially if it's a field like mine where most people don't even have a four-year degree at all.

Last edited by Malloric; 10-25-2014 at 05:41 PM..
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