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A big part of the current employment situation is that the recovery is regional. Some areas have seem only modest improvement, perhaps none. Others, like in Seattle have been growing new positions much faster than they can be filled. I think that most candidates, not sure about you, often eliminate relocation from their search without really considering it. If you are willing to move anywhere to take a professional position, you should be able to find work quickly. Relocation adds complexity, but it doesn't have to be forever and if you are young, it should be relatively easy. Depending on exactly what technology experience you have, the Seattle are as an example has hundreds of jobs each day from places like Microsoft, Expedia, Starbucks, Amazon, Boeing and hundreds of smaller firms that support the big guys. My company and the employers of most of my peers are always lamenting that we can't find anyone to hire and that our positions stay open way too long.
I'm guessing that your open positions are only for highly experienced tech workers. No one is arguing against the idea that such individuals, if they live in the right cities, can easily find meaningful work.
I would offer myself as a candidate for your open positions (I live in Seattle and am on a contract that will be ending in a couple months) but it'd probably be pointless since you're looking for Sr.-level experience.
Yes, a lot of jobs are not advertised, but that doesn't mean networking will get you those jobs. Jobs which are not advertised are normally filled by internal applicants. Even if you get to know someone in the company, it is unlikely they will give it to someone who has nothing to do with their company.
If you don't have a strong network, then it is very difficult to build it up in a short period. And remember once you are unemployed ,you got to find another job within 6 months. You may not be able to get the right contacts within 6 months.
In fact an employer has to be a total idiot to hire his colleague friend, when he could have just used the job boards and get hundreds of qualified applicants.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,935,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon
Yes, a lot of jobs are not advertised, but that doesn't mean networking will get you those jobs. Jobs which are not advertised are normally filled by internal applicants. Even if you get to know someone in the company, it is unlikely they will give it to someone who has nothing to do with their company.
Some are, then those people's positions become open too. Those then need to be filled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon
If you don't have a strong network, then it is very difficult to build it up in a short period. And remember once you are unemployed ,you got to find another job within 6 months. You may not be able to get the right contacts within 6 months.
That is why you don't focus on your network when you become unemployed. You focus on it career long and don't neglect it or stop expanding it when you have a job. That's the best time to build it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon
In fact an employer has to be a total idiot to hire his colleague friend, when he could have just used the job boards and get hundreds of qualified applicants.
No one said anything about hiring their friend, but using networks and internal referrals (which use networks) are often found to be far more effective in finding the right candidate than just posting on public boards. That process is notoriously inefficient and often a last resort. Heck, even the few times I worked in places where it was policy that they need to be externally posted, those candidates were only looked at if the networks couldn't produce the correct fit.
Some are, then those people's positions become open too. Those then need to be filled.
Exactly, if you hire someone internally then you still need hire someone to replace the one you promoted. if you have 100 qualified people knocking on your door to get the position, then why not use it?
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That is why you don't focus on your network when you become unemployed. You focus on it career long and don't neglect it or stop expanding it when you have a job. That's the best time to build it.
No one disagrees with that, but it is not much help for someone unemployed without a strong network.
Networking is a long term solution, not a short term one.
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No one said anything about hiring their friend, but using networks and internal referrals (which use networks) are often found to be far more effective in finding the right candidate than just posting on public boards. That process is notoriously inefficient and often a last resort. Heck, even the few times I worked in places where it was policy that they need to be externally posted, those candidates were only looked at if the networks couldn't produce the correct fit.
"Networks and internal referrals" is a fancy way of saying. "promoting people and hiring a colleague's friend". (Your colleague is not going to recommend someone he is not friends with.) And yes, internal hiring is very common, but an unemployed candidate is not going to benefit from that.
Sometimes they hire a colleague's friend when they can't find a suitable candidate internally. The reason it is done sometimes is not because it is smart decision. But because it is easy and they don't know how to find the right candidates. Instead of looking for people who would be the best fit for the job, they would use web programs to filter out 90% and then look for less important stuff like company size, years of experience, university.
If you have 100 qualified people knocking on your door to get a needed position in the company, then use it. Find the best people for the jobs and hire them.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,935,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon
"Networks and internal referrals" is a fancy way of saying. "promoting people and hiring a colleague's friend". Your colleague is not going to recommend someone he is not friends with.
No, it really isn't. It can be with people that don't approach it professionally, but it often isn't and it doesn't have to be. And yes, people do recommend people they are not friends with all the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon
If you have 100 qualified people knocking on your door to get a needed position in the company, then use it. Find the best people for the jobs and hire them.
Remember that the "most qualified" on paper, or even in real life skill sets, is often not the best person for the job... and wide open interviewing is a poor way to determine the best fit.
Going to those 100 make sense if you can't find the right candidate in more efficient and effective ways.
Some of you remain confused, so let me explain what this involves - and I invite others who know what networking is to chime in and add to what I've written.
Networking is not hiring friends. When you work, you establish relationships with people that you remain in touch with over the years. These are colleagues, clients or customers, outside vendors, people you meet who work for the competition because you may help one another out on occasion. This group of people is considered your network.
In the old days you would do this by collecting business cards and adding them to your rolodex. Nowadays you connect with them on Linkedin.
When you're looking for a new job, you reach out to those people in your network and let them know. You ask for their help, request that they pass along your resume, and think about who they know in their network that may have jobs that would be a good fit for your skills. If they like you, they'll contact people they know to inquire about openings and pass along your resume, put in a good word, or just get back to you with information that is helpful, such as, "So and so was just let go from his job so XX Corporation may be looking for someone to take his place. If you're interested, I'll put a call into the Director there because we've worked together, and put in a good word for you."
It should be obvious that all you're doing is casting a wider net in letting the world know you're available for hire, and in asking others to help you if they can, and you will not be hired if you do not have the skills or experience needed.
Hopefully this clears up the confusion we've seen here.
No, it really isn't. It can be with people that don't approach it professionally, but it often isn't and it doesn't have to be. And yes, people do recommend people they are not friends with all the time.
You know we are talking about average Americans, not some elite group with ivy league degrees. If they are in a company where they are encouraged to recommend people, they will recommend their friends.
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Remember that the "most qualified" on paper, or even in real life skill sets, is often not the best person for the job... and wide open interviewing is a poor way to determine the best fit.
Going to those 100 make sense if you can't find the right candidate in more efficient and effective ways.
Then you should fire the HR manager, and find a better one who look at more than just how many years of experience they have, and what university they graduated from.
Also, if you have a desirable position, then why would you only do interviews? You can have performance tests, and you can give them tasks to perform.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,935,179 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon
You know we are talking about average Americans, not some elite group with ivy league degrees. If they are in a company where they are encouraged to recommend people, they will recommend their friends.
I'm not talking about an elite group. Just your normal professional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon
Then you should fire the HR manager, and find a better one who look at more than just how many years of experience they have, and what university they graduated from.
Also, if you have a desirable position, then why would you only do interviews? You can have performance tests, and you can give them tasks to perform.
I never said only interviews. And lots of positions aren't suitable for testing, some are. Some you look at portfolio; or ask them to give a presentation, or review their public speaking. But lots of positions are about leadership, communication, and personality fit. Sure, there are ways to get at those things, but open interviews from a big applicant pool, even if paired down, it a very inefficient way to get there. You're far better off, in most cases, working through a network that knows you, your culture, and what you're looking for in a fit. It's just more efficient and more likely to yield good results.
Some are, then those people's positions become open too. Those then need to be filled.
That is why you don't focus on your network when you become unemployed. You focus on it career long and don't neglect it or stop expanding it when you have a job. That's the best time to build it.
No one said anything about hiring their friend, but using networks and internal referrals (which use networks) are often found to be far more effective in finding the right candidate than just posting on public boards. That process is notoriously inefficient and often a last resort. Heck, even the few times I worked in places where it was policy that they need to be externally posted, those candidates were only looked at if the networks couldn't produce the correct fit.
I can't believe you are having to explain this.
I am starting to think that the idea of networking is not well understood by some posters. Is it lack of critical thinking skills or social isolation?
Networking is not hiring friends. When you work, you establish relationships with people that you remain in touch with over the years. These are colleagues, clients or customers, outside vendors, people you meet who work for the competition because you may help one another out on occasion. This group of people is considered your network.
Those people are friends/acquaintances. They are not friends you would go out and have a beer with, but they are still friends. They are the people you like the most on social level, the people you respect.
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In the old days you would do this by collecting business cards and adding them to your rolodex. Nowadays you connect with them on Linkedin.
Both those statements are hysterical. Most people never collected business cards, and Linkedin is hyped up. How many have really got a job through Linkedin?
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When you're looking for a new job, you reach out to those people in your network and let them know. You ask for their help, request that they pass along your resume, and think about who they know in their network that may have jobs that would be a good fit for your skills. If they like you, they'll contact people they know to inquire about openings and pass along your resume, put in a good word, or just get back to you with information that is helpful, such as, "So and so was just let go from his job so XX Corporation may be looking for someone to take his place. If you're interested, I'll put a call into the Director there because we've worked together, and put in a good word for you."
Which means in other words, you are asking your friends to see if there is any positions available. If they had no social relationship with you, why would they even bother.
And this tactic does not work very well if you don't have too many to contact in the first place, or if your contacts are in the wrong industry or location. Which means networking is a task that needs to be done while you are working.
If a company focus too much on networking, then it will only lead to less qualified workers, because they are often not hired based on their qualifications. In addition you probably have to pay them more, because you need to give them an incentive to leave their old position.
Last edited by Camlon; 10-29-2014 at 03:21 PM..
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