I can't take freelancing (employee, consulting, profit, owner)

[harlowvart]

TL;DR: Say no to freelance jobs if you don't want to do them.

I just don't have the right personality to deal with difficult clients when freelancing. A former boss asked me to do some work for his company. It's not work I do anymore - I transitioned out of that field a while ago. I figured it wouldn't hurt to do him a favor and meet some new people.

I knew that he was OCD and a bit of a micromanager, one of these people that likes to know *why* the sky is blue. I also know that he is willing to pay to have someone tell him why the sky is blue, so I figured what the heck - it will take 2x as long to do the job as it would for someone normal, but at least he will get what he wants. He's also my best reference and it's been some time since we worked together.

It has just been a nightmare. Imagine you own a plumbing company. You don't really install stuff anymore, you manage people who do that work. You've been called in to install a sink and tub, personally. The home owner has already built out the bathroom and no wall is straight. The floor can't hold the weight of a normal tub. The home owner doesn't want to change anything about the existing structure - they want you to find a tub that will work for them and to personally install it. It's going to be a challenge to find anything that fits in the space, and also a lot more expensive than it would be to put in a new floor or install a straight wall.

Anyone else would see so many red flags at this point, that they'd bail. An idiot like me misses them. Someone like me thinks, oh, it is good they called me, because I can really help them solve this problem!

After finding the tub and sink set that meet all your client's very specific needs, you leave the client to order the goods and let you know when they arrive. The client tells you that he has decided to order completely different fixtures, that don't actually do what he said he wanted done. You can fit them into the space, but you suspect the client is going to be disappointed.

You enumerate the ways in which you think the client will be unhappy and they do not respond. The client paid you a lot of money to tell them what to buy, so it is a little strange that they are buying something else, but whatever.

The client then contacts you again. The stuff is here, what time can you come tomorrow? You tell them that you can't come tomorrow. You agree on a date. They decide that they would rather have you install the sink one day and the tub the next, in case a leak develops in the sink overnight.

I'm getting paid for all for all of this, but it's insane. I don't want to do this work, I don't want to waste my time with useless on-site visits, and I don't want to be treated like a plumber's assistant who needs someone who knows nothing about plumbing standing behind me telling me which tools to use.

[sjdemak]

My last job was very similar to this except it wasn't freelance. This is what they call a crap client. Its not worth the time spent on this project to endure the idiotic micro manager all day. People shouldn't question how one does there job. Only that its done correctly, and results can back it up. I just tell people like this to go learn programming and software/web development at a university like I did. That gets the point across. You must take pride in yourself and never look back.

[harlowvart]

Thank you. I hope that I will finish this job this week and just be done with it. It's really not worth the money, but I am too entangled with this person socially and professionally to just walk away at this point (which is what I would do if it were anyone else).

[Malloric]

That's what's great about freelance.

"No, thanks. I don't do that kind of work. Good luck."

Now, imagine you're an employee and that's what your employer wants... Hmm, tougher call. I work through agencies and have no problem telling them no. Contracts with crap pay started popping up about five years ago with the recession. Absolutely not my problem. I don't care what crap contract you were stupid enough to sign expecting you'd find somebody to eat their shirt so you could still make a tiny profit on it. Find an employee if you want somebody to cover that crap at half the going rate. One or two agencies I've had that conversation with I don't get a whole lot of work with anymore since they expected people to cover all jobs, even those crap ones. No biggie. I'm plenty busy.

[harlowvart]

"No, thanks. I don't do that kind of work. Good luck."

Can I get that tattooed on my forehead? Wait, I won't see it there -- better make it the back of my hand. I still can't believe this person is intentionally doing this -- I expected PITA, but not to this extent.

I'm getting better at saying no but still have some way to go, apparently.

[Malloric]

Originally Posted by harlowvart

"No, thanks. I don't do that kind of work. Good luck."

Can I get that tattooed on my forehead? Wait, I won't see it there -- better make it the back of my hand. I still can't believe this person is intentionally doing this -- I expected PITA, but not to this extent.

I'm getting better at saying no but still have some way to go, apparently.

Yeah, not as easy as it sounds. I've become too entangled for my comfort with one firm. They account for roughly half my income at this point, way too much. What I've done is restrict my range geographically. I don't go to San Jose/Peninsula for that firm anymore. It's not that I really mind driving there as much as I wanted less work from them, so I'll only take stuff closer to where I live. That didn't really work. I'm doing even more with them now than I was before. The upside is I don't drive quite as far, but otherwise it didn't solve the problem.

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by harlowvart

It has just been a nightmare. Imagine you own a plumbing company. You don't really install stuff anymore, you manage people who do that work. You've been called in to install a sink and tub, personally. The home owner has already built out the bathroom and no wall is straight. The floor can't hold the weight of a normal tub. The home owner doesn't want to change anything about the existing structure - they want you to find a tub that will work for them and to personally install it. It's going to be a challenge to find anything that fits in the space, and also a lot more expensive than it would be to put in a new floor or install a straight wall.

Growing up as a contractor's son (and later the on-site supervisor) here is how you handle this situation.

"Mr. XXX, after evaluating your requests, here are some issues that I see." Then you show them the structural issues. "While I can probably find what you need, the cost to install this specialized item is going to be more expensive due to issues X,Y, and Z. To meet code, I'm going to have to do A,B and C which is going to add more time and money. Here is the cost to fix the current issues and install standard equipment, and here is the cost to install what you are asking for. Which way would you like to proceed?" [/quote]

Originally Posted by harlowvart

After finding the tub and sink set that meet all your client's very specific needs, you leave the client to order the goods and let you know when they arrive. The client tells you that he has decided to order completely different fixtures, that don't actually do what he said he wanted done. You can fit them into the space, but you suspect the client is going to be disappointed.

Mr. XXX, We originally agreed upon installing the fixtures discussed in the initial estimate. Based on my experience, if I install these I'm going to run into the following issues..... (insert issues here) It can be done, but I believe you are going to be unsatisfied with the results which could lead to additional costs to replace these fixtures. Would you consider the following? (insert recommendation here). Here is the cost comparision. If you wish to move forward with installing your fixtures, I will need you to sign the following waiver to release me from the liability in the event that you are unsatisfied with the installation."

Originally Posted by harlowvart

The client then contacts you again. The stuff is here, what time can you come tomorrow? You tell them that you can't come tomorrow. You agree on a date. They decide that they would rather have you install the sink one day and the tub the next, in case a leak develops in the sink overnight.

Mr. XXX, my estimate was based off the ability to complete said work in one day. To avoid an upcharge for returning at a later date I would request to complete the installation on said day. If there are leaks or other issues, I will address those asap at no cost to you. A leaky sink faucet will have no effects on a bathtub and could be repaired without compromising the tub install. If I have to return, the additional cost will be (insert your charge here)


Rarely did we ever have issues with this.

[harlowvart]

Wow, thank you for that script! The work I am doing is actually IT, but I wanted to use the plumbing analogy to keep myself from writing something that would get back to the client I think that kind of language works for any situation. I sometimes wonder if this person treats their car mechanic or plumber the way they are treating me... and I bet that they do.

The other issue in this situation is that I agreed to be paid by the hour. My client wanted someone who would take more time with this than any sane person would. Ugh, the more I think about this, the more irritated I am with myself for getting myself into a situation I knew would drive me up the wall.

I would also be nervous about getting half my income from someone I didn't enjoy working for. I hope you get some new, nicer clients that keep you too tied up to do everything for Company X!

[Nlambert]

That script can be used in any line of work whether it is providing goods, services, or both.

I have found clients and customers to be pretty receptive if you give them options. What you're actually doing is something similar to sales. You're giving the client/customer "choices" but actually steering the decision making process to work in your favor either way (and ultimately please the customer by choosing your options) and hopefully in the end this allows your expertise to show through. You don't allow them to choose an option that experience tells you won't work.

I gave you the construction script.

Here's how I used it in selling diesel truck parts to customers:

"Mr. XXX, while I know you want to repair the vehicle as cheaply as possible let's look at a couple of issues I see with this. You're replacing brake drums due to wearing unevenly. The issue isn't the drums, it's the shoes not wearing evenly. Here's what I see. Your spring kit is failing allowing your shoes to rattle, which wears grooves in the drum. The spring kit is inexpensive compared to the drums. I recommend replacing it as well.

I've also noticed a glaze on the drum, which tells me oil is likely on your shoes. Re-installing those old shoes is going to create a hazard as stopping power is reduced. Not to mention, constant stop and go creates a lot of heat, and the oil in the drums could catch on fire. (This is true, I've seen it happen)

If you want to save money, I recommend using a better quality shoe and you can use a less expensive drum since they wear a lot sooner than the shoes and will have to be replaced anyhow at about the same rate. But..... before we order those, I'd recommend figuring out WHY the glazing has occurred. Call me and let me know if you need additional components to fix that leak and we can extend the service life of all the components, which saves you additional labor and money."

I didn't give them the option to cheap out and just swap drums, because I knew that wasn't the root cause of their problem. Very rarely did a customer go against my recommendations.


It sounds like a consulting gig. So use it as an opportunity to point out some problems and give them solutions to those problems. You'll sound knowledgeable and likely gain more positive results. Remind them that they are paying you to provide expertise in a specific area and reassure them that the job will be done right.

[harlowvart]

Thank you - these are really great scripts and anyone searching freelancing on this site is going to find them useful. I am generally good at convincing people to choose the option that's best for them and thought I had in this case as well.

My situation turned out odd because the client placed the equipment order, not me. For some reason, he ordered completely different equipment than what we had agreed upon. I have no idea why. It will meet 80% of his needs. I sent an email outlining exactly how it comes short. He hasn't responded to any of my attempts to contact him directly since-- I've just gotten messages that are cc:ed amongst a few people in his office to schedule the physical part of the work.

I will set everything up as best as I can, but if they call me looking for support, I'm going to suggest they order what I recommended in the first place.

I feel like I have been demoted and not informed of it- like he decided to take someone else's word for product recommendations but is still using me to set it up (which is the part of the job I just don't do anymore because I hate it and I'm no longer just starting out in this field).