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I love someone that takes a statistic and tries to use it to show something that it does not show. I know plenty of blue collar workers that are divorced, you see they got someone or got themselves pregnant at a young age and tried to do the right thing, but it did not work. Does not mean they are unhappy throughout their lives.
Most of the divorced people I've known are unhappy. Their children are often unhappier. Typically, the woman ends up much worse off than the man, especially if she has very few career options due to lack of education, training, and ability to afford childcare.
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Also who says they live longer and have healthier lives? I would love to see a study showing anything of the sort.
Causation does not mean causality. I could argue those with higher education are more apt to live in urban areas and urban areas are more likely to have public transit. Use of public transit means more walking and thus less driving. More driving usually means worse health.
The study was just looking at 30 miles. Heck I know someone that drives 90 miles EACH way.
As for having kids and divorce well....I had a neighbor that had a panic attack because she had kids in her early 20's. Fast forward a decade she thought she "never had any fun in my 20's" so she got a divorce then went though a boyfriend and another and moved out again apparently. I'm not saying every marriage works out, certainly divorce exists for a reason. However the ease of it does not always help when you consider the ramifications for children and communities. I know a women who divorced years ago and it complicated the heck out of their family. She found another guy, he found another women. Ok fine. But now the kids have one set of grandparents and one set of step grandparents all of which want to see the kids and they all are scattered across the eastern half of the US. There are no easy answers here.
Compounding this is up until a few years ago in Mass alimony was for life. Not weeks, months or years...life. I've heard the old joke that it really means "all the money' countless times.
I can agree with L210 to a point. Often times I see one husband or wife that does everything in one part of life. One person does all the bills, one does all the working income, one has the degree and one doesn't one has a business and one doesn't etc. I've met some that do not know how to cook, clean, run their own accounting, write a checkbook maybe even drive just because their spouse does it.
Most of the divorced people I've known are unhappy. Their children are often unhappier. Typically, the woman ends up much worse off than the man, especially if she has very few career options due to lack of education, training, and ability to afford childcare.
They rarely talk about quality of life. I know a number of people who degrees that are fretting over student loan payments and their wages are not growing. While I don't think I'll set down roots in ND the area has been very good to me money wise.
Suddenly being covered in grime in a oil field making $80k ++ a year does not look so bad, but what passes for a man these days is a lot different. If they can be at home playing World of Warcraft drinking a hipster beer by 5:30PM while wearing their sisters jeans they just are not happy.
Causation does not mean causality. I could argue those with higher education are more apt to live in urban areas and urban areas are more likely to have public transit. Use of public transit means more walking and thus less driving. More driving usually means worse health.
Correlation does not equal causation, but those numbers do counter the argument that blue collar workers are generally happier. How can they be happier when their marriages are falling apart at a higher rate, and they have more health problems? That affects quality of life.
Affluent people do drive more.
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Originally Posted by Fargobound
They rarely talk about quality of life. I know a number of people who degrees that are fretting over student loan payments and their wages are not growing. While I don't think I'll set down roots in ND the area has been very good to me money wise.
All of this is just anecdotal. The average student loan debt is less than $30k. With the median salary of a college-educated person being much higher, one can quickly make up for that debt. It's also not as if those who never attended college don't ever take out home loans, car loans, or use credit cards. Having grown up poor, I knew a lot of blue collar workers who regularly got assistance from charities, were in danger of being evicted, or were in danger of losing their houses. All of that negatively affects quality of life.
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Perhaps unsurprisingly the report found that wage seizures were most common among middle-aged, blue-collar workers and lower-income employees.
Suddenly being covered in grime in a oil field making $80k ++ a year does not look so bad, but what passes for a man these days is a lot different. If they can be at home playing World of Warcraft drinking a hipster beer by 5:30PM while wearing their sisters jeans they just are not happy.
But, can you blame people who would rather make $80k a year as a software developer? There is also more stability in the technology field than there is in the energy field. If oil prices stay as low as they are, these shale projects are going to go bust. I know college is not for everyone and some people are very happy in their blue collar jobs, but to generalize blue collar workers as happier is odd when it's not supported by the facts.
I can see pros and cons in both white and blue collar jobs. Blue collar you typically burn your body out faster but with white collar you are much more suspectable to RIF's especially due to buyouts and leveraged mergers.
I hate to be that person to dismiss someone for not being able to directly empathize. It's not always necessary to have been directly in someone's shoes to sympathize, but I think this is an issue in Mike Rowe's case. He's a guy with a communications degree who gets to do fun stuff on t.v. He doesn't have to spend 10-12 hours a day in an oil field for decades. I think anyone would love to have his job of spending a few hours plucking chickens and getting paid millions of dollars to do so. How many episodes does he film each season? 20-something? He probably spends less than a month each year doing actual dirty work.
The same could be said for "trustbuster" Teddy Roosevelt. What's you point? That only someone from within the trade should be allowed to say, "Hey, those guys are doing important work?"
That's not my experience. The statistics show that college-educated people are much less likely to get divorced. College-educated people also live longer, healthier lives.
Than whom, exactly? Is it a comparison of college/non-college (which would include high school drop-outs and people in low-end jobs without post-high school training)? Or is it explicitly a comparison of people with bachelor degrees against technically trained and employed people?
I can see pros and cons in both white and blue collar jobs. Blue collar you typically burn your body out faster but with white collar you are much more suspectable to RIF's especially due to buyouts and leveraged mergers.
The desirable goal of entering a blue collar job is to own the business, just as the point of a white collar job is ultimately to get a lead position, if not into management.
I went to college after high school. My best buddy in high school skipped college and instead went to welding school. He went a bit farther that ordinary welding, though, and learned how to weld exotic metals and take on other problem issues.
During the 80s, he was one of a handful of welders who could repair oil drill bits in the field. Oil companies called him with one question: "Can we send a helicopter for you right now?" He named his own fees.
He retired nearly 20 years ago; I'm still working.
I come from a long line of blue collar workers. They gave me and my siblings our excellent work ethic. I'm proud of that and I have great respect for people who earn their livings through their physical labor. I support their rights to a good life and their rights to unionize. Unfortunately, from what I've learned about Mike Rowe, he does not seem to share any actual kinship with blue collar workers except as an act that provides him with a living.
Rowe became a performer while he was still in high school. He majored in communications in college and he was a singer with the Baltimore Opera. He has said he pursued his music career because "the girls were everywhere." He later became an on-air host for QVC. When he was fired from that he took a job as host for a TV magazine program. He then became a voice-over person for the Discovery Channel and his fame there grew he began growing his personal image and endorsing products. He has never been a blue collar worker in his life. He has no credentials and no experience in that world. He lives in San Francisco. It's all an act.
That would bother me not a whit except that he has taken a political stance that is anti-blue collar and anti-union. He appeared at Mitt Romney campaign events. Whatever one wants to say about the Romney campaign platform, no one could ever make the case it promoted causes that would help blue collar workers or increase jobs for them. Mike Rowe might "celebrate dirty jobs" but only because there's big money in it for him as his niche market.
The desirable goal of entering a blue collar job is to own the business, just as the point of a white collar job is ultimately to get a lead position, if not into management.
I went to college after high school. My best buddy in high school skipped college and instead went to welding school. He went a bit farther that ordinary welding, though, and learned how to weld exotic metals and take on other problem issues.
During the 80s, he was one of a handful of welders who could repair oil drill bits in the field. Oil companies called him with one question: "Can we send a helicopter for you right now?" He named his own fees.
He retired nearly 20 years ago; I'm still working.
I dont know if every blue collar worker wants town the business. A number does but one can argue white collar workers want that too beyond just being management. As for your friend, I am sure white collar workers can get that with the right skills and lack of supply.
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