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As I've tried to point out in other threads here, the Great Recession of 2008, like the Rust Bowl Recession of 1982, was structural in nature. many of the jobs which were lost were gone for good due to changing global economic conditions.
And unfortunately, when that happens , the burden of that shift usually falls upon people who used to enjoy a protected position -- due to influence of a labor union, government, or both. People in those situations, I can say from experience, often stick around for the low demands or light structure of the workplace -- as opposed to the increased regimentation and micromanagement at the entry level common in the "new workplace".
So I can understand the resentment -- I've seen it many times at other employment sites. And unfortunately, many of those affected go whining to politicians rather than attempting to inventory their skills and re-invent themselves.
I can envision no answer, can speak again from experience that employers whose needs revolve around youth, raw stamina and/or an unjaded attitude have any number of measures to avoid taking on workers with deteriorating physical skills and diminished enthusiasm. I personally know of colleagues who've been hired as "temps", and are still "temping" several years later due to physical standards they can't meet.
About the only advice I can offer is "Even if you 'give up', don't 'quit' -- the two approaches involve different attitudes. The OP isn't particularly cruel; he's just shown enough courage to tell the truth.
It's been some ten years now since I left a call-center job because I couldn't see any reason to stay when the only option I was offered (and in some instances, compelled to take) was cross-training to work which paid nothing more. Since then, I got "caught" in the 2008 meltdown, and have since worked a variety of jobs -- from seasonal at a theme park to the 2010 Census, seen an employer (DHL domestic freight) close within a few months of hiring, and a permanent job downgraded to "temp" on performance standards alone.
But I keep pitching -- tempered by the fact that with each new attempt, I get a better picture of what will -- and won't -- fit. If health holds out, I'll delay Social Security for a few years both because the basic benefit will be higher, and Unemployment, with it's provision for "stretching" the claim with part-time work, is a better deal.
I know a handful of guys who are over 50 and are technically long-term unemployed. Which I think means over 18 months? Two of my uncles and my dad's neighbor were in this boat after being career IBM programmers in Rochester, MN. I myself had a hard time finding a job after I moved from Silicon Valley back to Minnesota.
I think the thinking pattern is something like, they could just pick up a shift at the sporting goods store or something, but they are not sure if that makes their resume looks better or worse.
- Lead Mainframe Programmer, IBM 1988-2010.
- Evening Shift Retail Associate, Gander Mountain 2010-Present
Is that actually going to help them get another good programming job somewhere? Or now are they just dooming themselves to working at sporting good stores? I don't know what to tell them. Sadly, if I was hiring I probably would just throw their resume in the trash either way. Who needs a mainframe programmer or a 58 year old dude who works at Gander Mountain? Nobody...
Employment is rough these days and gets worse every year you get older. Every high school kid should have to watch Logan's Run in social studies class. Their teacher should explain that this used to be an example of a far-fetched sci fi dystopia but now it's an allegory about how life really works.
I know a handful of guys who are over 50 and are technically long-term unemployed. Which I think means over 18 months? Two of my uncles and my dad's neighbor were in this boat after being career IBM programmers in Rochester, MN. I myself had a hard time finding a job after I moved from Silicon Valley back to Minnesota.
I think the thinking pattern is something like, they could just pick up a shift at the sporting goods store or something, but they are not sure if that makes their resume looks better or worse.
- Lead Mainframe Programmer, IBM 1988-2010.
- Evening Shift Retail Associate, Gander Mountain 2010-Present
Is that actually going to help them get another good programming job somewhere? Or now are they just dooming themselves to working at sporting good stores? I don't know what to tell them. Sadly, if I was hiring I probably would just throw their resume in the trash either way. Who needs a mainframe programmer or a 58 year old dude who works at Gander Mountain? Nobody...
Employment is rough these days and gets worse every year you get older. Every high school kid should have to watch Logan's Run in social studies class. Their teacher should explain that this used to be an example of a far-fetched sci fi dystopia but now it's an allegory about how life really works.
I think in that situation you have to change fields but not something like retail because that can depress anyone. If they are 55 and over they can get assistance from websites like this one below for part-time and full-time jobs.
I offered someone a job today who had been unemployed for 4 months. She called up today that she was "going to the emergency room" which I later forced her to admit was complete [Bleep.]. It angers me particularly because I have physical disabilities - anyone who lies about that is going to be on my [Bleep.].
OP, is one of your disabilities excessive swearing? Geez Louise, tone it down a bit! Grown-up professional people shouldn't have to constantly swear! It makes you look UNprofessional and just plain common. I don't blame people for quitting if you swear at them like that on the job. I feel sorry for the moderator on this thread!
Every job I've ever gotten is due to luck. There are a lot of people who have the skills to do my job. I should know, because when we have an opening, we get dozens of apps and most of them meet the basic qualifications. I got hired where I currently work because I fit the culture and people here like me, not because I've got some secret sauce or work so much harder than everyone else in the world.
Sometimes it's like finding a good relationship. Everybody is capable of having sex, but does that person want to have sex with you? Not always easy to find that. When I did the interview where I currently work it was like that "click" that you have when you hit it off early with your girlfriend.
It's not even easy to get subsistence jobs. I was laid off from a teaching job during budget cuts in Texas in 2010. A friend of mine worked at H.E.B. (a Texas-based grocery chain) and got me an interview for a part-time cashier. Mind you, I had 4 years of experience as a cashier and customer service (front-end) manager at Wal-Mart 2 entries down on my resume, 4 years prior. I had all the required qualifications plus some. I answered all the questions perfectly since, having had experience with that work, knew exactly what to say.
But the manager I interviewed with seemed incredulous that I would want that job having been a teacher with a master's degree making 3-4x what I was going to make there. I didn't get the job. When I called my friend about what happened she said they thought I was "overqualified and not serious" about the job, even though I expressed what I thought was clear desire for it. They had scratched me off the list before I even left the building.
I don't know whether to call my employees skilled or not - we actually prefer masters degrees but one could legitimately debate whether it's "skilled" labor.
My attitude about older workers is, if you can't find work, then retrain yourself. The world owes nobody anything. You're not owed a career in the field you like. Find your talents and go there, whatever they might be. Find your talents and match them with the needs of the demand for labor - period. Much of the world does this but we in the United States think we're above it all and owed a specific lifestyle.
I really don't care. Adapt or die.
Wow. All I can say is I'm glad I don't work for such a cold, heartless employer. It's hard out there for lots of people, and not everyone has the time or resources to just "retrain" themselves. Just because you've seen people flake out doesn't mean that's what all unemployed people do.
I am someone who has overcome a major physical disability to become a manager, who has earned masters degree, and who has defied odds and I cannot and will not accept pathetic excuses for failure when I know that I'm more "handicapped" than they are. [Bleep]
It's not even easy to get subsistence jobs. I was laid off from a teaching job during budget cuts in Texas in 2010. A friend of mine worked at H.E.B. (a Texas-based grocery chain) and got me an interview for a part-time cashier. Mind you, I had 4 years of experience as a cashier and customer service (front-end) manager at Wal-Mart 2 entries down on my resume, 4 years prior. I had all the required qualifications plus some. I answered all the questions perfectly since, having had experience with that work, knew exactly what to say.
But the manager I interviewed with seemed incredulous that I would want that job having been a teacher with a master's degree making 3-4x what I was going to make there. I didn't get the job. When I called my friend about what happened she said they thought I was "overqualified and not serious" about the job, even though I expressed what I thought was clear desire for it. They had scratched me off the list before I even left the building.
This. I worked in a restaurant when I was in college, and anyone who applied for kitchen or serving jobs and had any kind of (unrelated) post-secondary credential was basically disqualified from the get-go. The assumption was that he or she was overqualified and would be out the door the second something better came along.
If you are educated and have some "real job" experience under your belt, you might find yourself having to dumb-down your resume to even have a chance at a low-wage food service or retail job.
This. I worked in a restaurant when I was in college, and anyone who applied for kitchen or serving jobs and had any kind of (unrelated) post-secondary credential was basically disqualified from the get-go. The assumption was that he or she was overqualified and would be out the door the second something better came along.
If you are educated and have some "real job" experience under your belt, you might find yourself having to dumb-down your resume to even have a chance at a low-wage food service or retail job.
If you have real job experience under your belt you shouldn't be applying to a low wage job because not only would it be depressing but you may need two of them to survive. And if that is the case then how will you ever get that REAL JOB again since most of your time will be occupied between two low wage jobs?
I'm sorry, but as an employer, I've seen the reality. I get people with employment gaps and give them an opportunity to work in a fairly easy work environment, and what do they do? Flake out in week one.
I offer work to the unemployment and they don't return my emails. I offer people work and then they think "OMG, I've not done this before!!!" and flake out and don't come back after two days. I offer people interviews - no response. I guess whatever I'm offering - real work - isn't as attractive as sitting on one's *ss and doing nothing.
Sorry, but if I see another thread about "I've been unemployed for 5 years, what do I do?" I'll have to tell them to stifle it. If you're unemployed for more than a year, you're a loser. Plain and simple. Get over yourself. The world owes you nothing. Get off your duff and get a freakin job. Or starve.
Uhhh yea. After six months, generally nobody will hire. You have a few options. Do something that will look good on the resume (volunteer, join the military, join some sort of organization) or retrain. You can also network in various ways. The problem is, most unemployed only see the fact that they are unemployed. And most employers see the same. Seriously, you must suck as an employer. Rule 1 once you hire is to train. Throwing someone straight into the busiest day is a sure way to quickly boot employees. Once employees leave within the week, they have pretty much nowhere to go (they are demoralized and hopeless). And you have to spend more money hiring. So do us both a favor, and do your job.
Quote:
This. I worked in a restaurant when I was in college, and anyone who applied for kitchen or serving jobs and had any kind of (unrelated) post-secondary credential was basically disqualified from the get-go. The assumption was that he or she was overqualified and would be out the door the second something better came along.
If you are educated and have some "real job" experience under your belt, you might find yourself having to dumb-down your resume to even have a chance at a low-wage food service or retail job.
This. This frankly disgusts me.
Why can't jobs ask the employees what they need before hiring, instead of wasting everyone's time on stupid questions ("Why do you see yourself as a leader?" Ummm yea, we need less leaders, and more people to be asked "How long do you want to stay?" without being disqualified), is to find out motive for job. Also, people like me generally have few enough jobs that even having only one or two real jobs, I kinda just want a part-time job because my last few jobs stressed me out. Even a few words asking "Why do you want this job when the others were more challenging?" would clear up things. Well, I left suddenly at the last job to stress so I'm kinda wanting to get back on my feet at a slower pace. As it is, most of what I'm looking for is low-wage PT to just get hired. Anyway, why is it your business? Couldn't I say "I want to work until something better comes along" and they hire a beta candidate to part-time to expand to full if I quit? I'd be perfectly fine with this. I'm not fine with being typecast or people dictating that one I've had better jobs I'm disqualified from everything else. Jesus, if I'm trying here, it means I currently couldn't get those better jobs. Haven't had a job since August, and frankly pretty much quit looking.
There isn't a real happy medium between part-time doesn't pay the bills, and fulltime "willing to work weekends and holidays" and completely stresses you out. If you're wanting a low-wage job, it's probably because you had a fulltime plus a part-time and didn't need that extra stuff. Or your last job messed with you. Or something weird went wrong. Or maybe you have another family member breadwinning, and just need extra money so your expenses aren't mooching off of them. In any case, such a thing as overqualification is a slap in the face. Hire people qualified for the job, be open to hire new people at a moment's notice if they start heading for the door. It seriously takes less effort being a job-offerer than a job-hunter, so it isn't that much to ask to just hire and keep other candidates on call. We don't mind. Really.
Hire the most qualified, and keep the most desperate on speed-dial.
Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 03-05-2015 at 10:39 PM..
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