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There are not enough blue collar opportunities to absorb everyone in need of a career. There are some lower paying jobs that could go to more Americans instead of illegals, but I would hope to see the wages improve as well.
What many of trades need are some sharp young people, instead of all the left over that aren't college material, whatever that happens to mean. But, will employers pay extra for potential? If they can afford to. Many, probably most cannot. It's called deflation, and it has been sending wages lower, or at least preventing them from going up.
Money really isn't everything though. And besides, working in the trades, you pick up bits of wisdom and skills that are applicable elsewhere. After working a decade in a trade, if you're not making good money, you probably wouldn't have fared much better with a college degree.
To do what? It isn't like "the field" is experiencing such a dearth of candidates to hire that it would consume all the former office employees who will be displaced by globalization and automation.
Of course not, as that is not what I'm at all saying. It is true that there will people who will be indefinitely unemployed in this new age, but as this country's standard of living falls and eventually stabilizes, I expect some level of manufacturing to return.
Also, one must realize I'm not speaking of the current crop of white-collar workers, but rather people entering the educational pipeline now hoping to be these white-collar workers. Unless one has a good job lined up, there is no credible argument to pursue a college education vs a skilled trade. One has a very high probability of yielding no financial return, while the other has an equally high probability of yielding a significant financial return along with stable job security.
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Originally Posted by s1alker
It's not just white collar vs skilled trades. Through automation and outsourcing we also lost many "middle of the road" jobs like manufacturing and other types of jobs that were once done by humans.
Why do we keep beating around the bush? The reality is with technology and changing business practices means not everyone is going to have a good job, or even a job at all. How we will deal with masses of unemployed have yet to be decided.
The reality is, for now, it is much easier to create software that can automate much of the work and responsibilities of many white-collar professions vs the skilled blue-collar ones. Automating the skilled trades may happen in the distant future, but it is simply far too expensive to even begin the process now.
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Originally Posted by Selena777
The trades seem to be either part of the construction or manufacturing industries, though. There just isn't enough growth there domestically to absorb most of the people who need jobs - manufacturing has and will continue to be offshored. Also, they are involved in a race to the bottom for wages with illegal immigrants who are willing to do a similar quality of work for "a fraction of the cost", the risk of injury/death on the job is high, and it's among the most firmly entrenched boys' club atmospheres in the working world. Accountants don't have to deal with that, so it makes sense that people would try to do that instead.
Not really, much of the trades is crucial for the constant maintenance of a city and state. Good luck keeping society running without aviation technicians, HVAC technicians, mechanics, welders, electricians, plumbers, etc. While its true the construction and manufacturing industries employ a significant number of these people, a large number also work in the service sector and provide a valuable service most Americans couldn't live without. I agree that quite a few people will be left behind, and that's just a fact that jobs are disappearing entirely and the need for a large workforce is quickly dissipating. But, that's not what this thread is about. Rather, this thread is about what is the better career decision for say a high school graduate thinking about pursuing a college education or a skilled trade.
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Originally Posted by peter_midnight
My only concerns about going into the trades would be that in southern border states (i.e. not Canadian border) you have illegals that do the work of tradesmen for a fraction of the cost. Going into the trades with the goal of owning a business would seem like the best route in my opinion.
Yes, this is a valid problem. Fortunately, it is one that is easily solved by the government through imposing certain licensing and education requirements/standards and prosecuting all those who don't meet the standards.
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Originally Posted by peter_midnight
Another thing is that sales that require a college degree would be hard to outsource, particularly outside sales. So some sort of technical outside sales might be an option including outside sales involving the trades.
I'm not sure I agree, unless I can see further justification as to why. I believe everything and anything that isn't tied to the public's safety is fair game to the corporate executives as long as it can increase net-cost differential. Even if this weren't the case, you can't exactly have all college graduates going into sales when only a very select few of people are capable of doing that kind of job.
Of course not, as that is not what I'm at all saying. It is true that there will people who will be indefinitely unemployed in this new age, but as this country's standard of living falls and eventually stabilizes, I expect some level of manufacturing to return.
If you consider the mechanisms that are causing the decline you can project the stabilization point assuming things are allowed to continue as they are, as you suggest. And if you consider which constituencies are incurring disproportionate impact of the decline you can see that just letting it happen as it is happening, as you suggest, is not only unacceptable to many but perhaps even legitimately impossible.
To do what? It isn't like "the field" is experiencing such a dearth of candidates to hire that it would consume all the former office employees who will be displaced by globalization and automation.
I'm beginning to think Buu is a robot seeing as how he or she is all over the forums talking about there not being any hope for anyone because of automation. Messengers everywhere will be left jobless.
The problem with the concept of skilled work as a ticket to ride lies in the fact that without unions, skilled work won't attract those wanting a decent lifestyle and a retirement plan that is valid and practical. Today's tradesmen are not being compensated at rates which provide, financial support for families, nor are they usually getting good employer provided health care coverage, and the retirement "plan" consists mostly of 401K plans coming out of your paycheck.
Meanwhile, many non union employers are reaping the rewards of diminished compensation coupled with the use of illegal immigrants doing a lot of the "unskilled" work that is normally considered part of the Journeyman's overall task. Don't think that more money is coming until workers get the cojones to organize themselves. Most of those skilled non union workers today are terribly misinformed about the benefits of having an organization of peers who won't compete for a shrinking piece of the pie, and instead, band together to demand a fair price for the one thing they can sell, their labor..
No they aren’t. The average college grad makes more straight out of college than a tradesman.
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