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Old 03-24-2015, 09:27 PM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,508,463 times
Reputation: 15500

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THese are rights, and believe it or not, they are in many cases more important that the take home salary at the end of the month.
This is biggest difference though. We want big paychecks, so much that people are giving up their "rights". They want $100k even if they have to work 80 hours/week. Because having $50k isn't enough.

The imaginary "rat race" concept is just there so they can justify having to work so much and so they can justify "needing" so many things. The sad part is that at the end of the day and after the bills are "paid", EU/US still have similar discretionary spending power. US just gets to live in a bigger house/driver larger cars/eat meals what it takes to feed two Europeans
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:03 PM
 
3,276 posts, read 7,832,705 times
Reputation: 8308
Job security doesn't exist anywhere. Government entities and nonprofits lay people off all the time. Budget crunch and you're the new guy? You're gone! Even if there aren't layoffs, you can still end up with a crappy manager who bullies you out of your job. It may be harder to get fired from a government job, but it can happen. You can end up working for some a-hole who just doesn't like you and nitpicks you over every little thing to make you look bad, then papers your file enough so you get fired. Nonprofits have their political firings too. My aunt was fired from a non-profit for not getting along with her manager.
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Old 03-25-2015, 12:16 AM
 
192 posts, read 247,871 times
Reputation: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by statisticsnerd View Post
Job security doesn't exist anywhere. Government entities and nonprofits lay people off all the time. Budget crunch and you're the new guy? You're gone! Even if there aren't layoffs, you can still end up with a crappy manager who bullies you out of your job. It may be harder to get fired from a government job, but it can happen. You can end up working for some a-hole who just doesn't like you and nitpicks you over every little thing to make you look bad, then papers your file enough so you get fired. Nonprofits have their political firings too. My aunt was fired from a non-profit for not getting along with her manager.
I worked as a contractor at one point and saw this happen a lot. The govenrment police forces etc might seem like they are hard to get 'fired' from but in reality they have weasely ways to do things (ie writing up a bad experience reccomendation, documenting small mishaps/incidents/words). they also tend to be A LOT more centralized to single personalities. So screwing with the wrong person can REALLY have an impact on your career prospectives. Also forget about promotion. That usually comes with retirement or death. Glad I stopped contracting out to them.
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Old 03-25-2015, 05:25 AM
 
Location: The DMV
6,569 posts, read 11,235,700 times
Reputation: 8619
Quote:
Originally Posted by quixotic59 View Post
You think because you spout right wing dogma it makes you correct. Look around carefully and you will see that your "reality" is changing day by day. Income inequality is a temporary condition. Eventually the 1% will destroy itself by crippling the very society it claims to uphold. Pure capitalism is a fantasy as is pure communism. Reality lies somewhere in between. Lack of social responsibility leads to failure of a society. History is rife with examples of greed destroying civilizations and economies. It is only because of the pervasive ignorance of history in modern American society and complacency combined with illegal market manipulations that the wealthy are progressing at the moment.
Employment is a necessary component of any successful society and cannot be solely at the whim and discretion of the employer. Employment is NOT a relationship, it is a CONTRACT, which is a fair exchange and is binding and includes terms. SAYING that no one is owed employment is just a manifestation of the ignorance of basic economic theory.
I agree with both you and Marc. And I think the bolded above is the key. There's a responsibility on both sides if society is to succeed. Unfortunately, as people (yes, going to use a broad brush here) - we will always look for the shortcuts. And thus, reality dictates that there will always be haves and have nots.

As for employment with regards to contracts or relations. I do see it as a contract/agreement, but the permanency of said contract is based on the relationship between the employee/employer. As for being "owed employment" - I'm not sure I agree with that phrasing. Yes, as a member of society, we are all obligated to contribute. I think the issue arises because of the disagreement on how that contribution is made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quixotic59 View Post
Paka this SHOULD be the case. Unfortunately, greed undermines that principle. What you propose is the foundation of good business practices that will guarantee long term success. Sadly, many businesses today focus on short term profits at the expense of longevity.
IMO - It's not just businesses. It's people in general.
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Old 03-25-2015, 05:57 AM
 
Location: USA
6,230 posts, read 6,907,135 times
Reputation: 10779
People decided they didn't want unions and threw themselves directly in front of the speeding corporate freight train thinking it would slow down in spite of their "valuable skills".
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:45 AM
 
3,670 posts, read 7,149,998 times
Reputation: 4269
it is not hard to get along with others if that is your goal
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Old 03-25-2015, 09:04 AM
 
Location: NYC
5,196 posts, read 4,649,829 times
Reputation: 7942
If you're not on the top making the decisions, then you're expendable. This is actually the way it has been for much of human history but the good times in America in the twentieth century has made us forget that. And now most people are just so willing to give that up without a fight.
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Old 03-25-2015, 09:40 AM
 
Location: La Jolla, CA
7,284 posts, read 16,642,126 times
Reputation: 11675
Government can be stable in some respects. Non profits are absolutely horrible, and change with the direction of the agendas of whatever board members sit at a given time. Even the chintziest little charity that accomplishes nothing and guzzles most of its meager earnings on administrative overhead, will still manage to attract big enough egos and enough drama to have a reality TV show. I have no idea why this is, but they are all the same.
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Old 03-25-2015, 01:32 PM
 
3,670 posts, read 7,149,998 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by 43north87west View Post
Government can be stable in some respects. Non profits are absolutely horrible, and change with the direction of the agendas of whatever board members sit at a given time. Even the chintziest little charity that accomplishes nothing and guzzles most of its meager earnings on administrative overhead, will still manage to attract big enough egos and enough drama to have a reality TV show. I have no idea why this is, but they are all the same.
people love drama!
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:38 PM
 
32 posts, read 39,488 times
Reputation: 82
The only job security that one is entitled is that which they do themselves. If you are owned by someone else, then you will do what you are told. If you own yourself, then you alone decide your fate. The idea that one is entitiled to a particular job is a fallacy at best. Stockholder owned corporations are legally obligated to optimise profit for those share holders and as an employee, you are just chattel property. Regardless of what warm fuzzy feelgood story the boss tells his minions, the corporation is a psychopath. It cares only for it's well being.

Work somewhere and get laid off. Surprised? Why? You agreed to do a task and the boss agreed to pay you. If there is no more task, then no more pay. Lose your job to someone else for whatever reason? You have been outcompeted...you lost.

Seems rather simple. Even a union worker could understand it.

pW
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