7 Reasons why the need for references should be ABOLISHED! (job offers, application, employers)

[pythonis]

I found it doesnt matter if i put down references or not so I just leave it blank or some such. if during the interview they ask why no references i just tell them "I went to work to work not to fraternize".

If i can help it I dont talk to people at work and if i dont have to mutter a word then its a good day.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by nep321

I made this list up myself.

(2) Who the hell regularly keeps in touch with their professional references? Sorry, but I am not going to make a quarterly ...phone call to my references, year after year. "Hi Bill.....remember me from 10 years ago? Can you be my reference now?" It's just plain awkward.

I did this when I was laid off the last time. And the time before. It actually helped, even though most large companies advise their employees to do little more than acknowledge the fact that the person worked there, but the company interested in hiring me could actually contact the number and get an actual person.

I wouldn't feel awkward doing that, BTW. I've provided references for people from my own professional past, and it isn't that weird.

[eok]

Providing good references requires skill and talent. You have to have the right insight into how people think, and into what they think of you. That's a skill and talent, which may or may not be relevant to your work. The person who hires you is likely to hire someone who has that skill and talent, instead of someone who has the skill and talent needed for that particular job.

Besides that, the people who get jobs the most easily are the smooth talkers. The ones that can talk their way into a job they barely qualify for. The people who can do the job best will often have a hard time trying to get the job, if they don't happen to be smooth talkers with skill and talent at using references.

This is a big part of why so much work is shoddy, why so many products are low quality, why so much paperwork is full of errors, why so much of our world is an unpleasant and inconvenient place. It's all because our system of employment, careers, etc., is so incompetent, and so many people do work they aren't really qualified for. And meanwhile those who are qualified, if they want the work, they have to start their own business, but might not have the skills for that.

[svicious22]

If you can't get a couple of people to vouch for you then I am not going to hire you, period. Keep dreaming.

[STT Resident]

Originally Posted by nep321

Why is everyone on here assuming that I don't have good references or whatever?

Given the excessive emotion you express on the subject one would naturally conclude that you have a paucity of good references and that the "whatever" translates to your job(s) too which would seem to be not meeting your expectations.

[runswithscissors]

Well at many MAJOR corporations like AT&T they are not even allowed to "say ANYTHING about you".

They simply CONFIRM that you worked there.

The whole point of getting a new job is to get a FRESH start!

Maybe THIS is the problem right here.

In the businesses I've owned I never looked for someone desiring a "fresh start". I looked for someone wanting ADVANCEMENT and challenging rewarding work.

If someone told me "fresh start" on an interview, that's a mental ding right there. And you better believe I'd let you elaborate to confirm my intuition that you were not the candidate for ME.

So my advise it to not say that LOL.

[ocnjgirl]

Originally Posted by nep321

See reason #1 on my list and then get back to me.

That's not always the case. The companies I apply to usually ask for supervisors, and then other co-workers. I can't just use my best friend who never worked with me. Also, there are couple of people I have worked with over the last 18 years (2 or 3) who were terrible co-workers and terrible employees...I know these couple would be hard pressed to get ANY co-workers to recommend them, so the process does work somewhat. IMO if you haven't worked with anyone who would recommend you honestly to an employer, there is something wrong with your people skills, work skills, or something else. The people who I use aren't lying just because they know me...I am a conscientious worker who gets along with most everyone and is a good team player...that's what they say because that is the truth...why shouldn't that hold sway in helping me get my next job?

I don't keep in contact with everyone, but when I apply for a new job, I contact them and say "Hi, it's JerseyGirl. Getting ready to apply for such and such company, would you mind if I used you as a reference?" Because I'm a good employee, they remember me even if it's been awhile and always say "no problem".

It only seems like it would be a problem if you aren't a good employee, leave jobs under less than stellar circumstances, job hop too much for people to get to know you or don't get along with others at work.

[Nonesuch]

If you think coming up with job references is tough, I hope you never have to pass a Federal background check. Just for the MBI they want 3 references... for everywhere you've been in the last 5 years! That's 3 for each residence, 3 more for each school, and another 3 unique individuals for each employer. And most of these people aren't just taking a phone call, they'll be getting a visit from a government contractor with a badge and a long checklist.

Originally Posted by eok

Providing good references requires skill and talent. You have to have the right insight into how people think, and into what they think of you. That's a skill and talent, which may or may not be relevant to your work. The person who hires you is likely to hire someone who has that skill and talent, instead of someone who has the skill and talent needed for that particular job.

Really? You think naming three people you've worked with in the last decade or so "requires skill and talent"? It takes talent to not alienate every single person at every past employer to the degree that they can't say anything good about you?

Besides that, the people who get jobs the most easily are the smooth talkers. The ones that can talk their way into a job they barely qualify for. The people who can do the job best will often have a hard time trying to get the job, if they don't happen to be smooth talkers with skill and talent at using references.

Depends on the hiring company. Some fall for smooth talkers, many do not.

I'm anything but a smooth talker, I get work because I have many former co-workers who have also moved on. These are people who, when their employer needs to hire somebody with my skillset, are willing to vouch for me and kickstart the hiring process.

This is a big part of why so much work is shoddy, why so many products are low quality, why so much paperwork is full of errors, why so much of our world is an unpleasant and inconvenient place. It's all because our system of employment, careers, etc., is so incompetent, and so many people do work they aren't really qualified for. And meanwhile those who are qualified, if they want the work, they have to start their own business, but might not have the skills for that.

The way to get work that you are qualified for is to network, to develop a solid reputation with other people in your industry as somebody who is qualified, and to get to know people you work with today and stay in touch with them as they move on to bigger and better things, even if only on LinkedIn.


There's a word for people who have worked with you in the past and can recommend you in the future: References.

[DragonflyMom]

If you think reference checks are bad, you ain't seen nothing yet. When you work for the federal government and get a high level security clearance, they come out to your neighbors and interview them. They ask questions about your marriage, loud arguments, wild parties, questionable practices, etc. And not just the neighbors you are friends with.....the jerk across the street who doesn't like your dog can take his shot at payback.

[MPowering1]

Originally Posted by Rambler123

Clarification:

1) By "Friends" I mean "coworkers in your field who you like and who like you."

2) People talked about the problem of list managers as references. I figured it was worth mentioning that many managers are not allowed by the company to say anything other than when a person worked there. This can be easily mistaken for a "bad reference" by idiot HR people, of which there are no shortage.

3) Just because a manager isn't allowed by company policy to bad-mouth a former employee doesn't mean he won't; people break the rules all the time. This gets into the typical problem: managers who are childish or nasty enough to want to sabotage a former employee are also the types who would violate company policy. Nobody is going to say anything about it because it is unlikely anyone will find out and nobody working under such a nasty boss would want to challenge him on it. Meanwhile, decent bosses who'd like to help out a former employee are also more likely to be honest and follow company policy.

Long story short, the reference system rewards bad behavior in the same fashion as internet forums: you can totally trash talk somebody without there being any consequences. And, much like the internet, anything can be made up about anyone, making it all rather meaningless.

All that really should matter is the person's definable skills, their personality (to a limited degree), and their job experience.

I'm sure many of you are extremely skilled with great personalities and attitudes that suck where work is concerned. No way would a number of us want to hire a number of you.

The best references are people higher up in the organization at previous jobs, not peers you're more likely to have a relationship with.

Lacking substantive references isn't going to help one's cause in getting a job, and I suspect that is what many of you are objecting to.