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It's been a while since I've been on here. Graduated with my bachelor's of science in IT, with a concentration in Network Security this past August. Ended up getting out of the job search pretty early, because I accepted the first offer I was given, for a Tier 1 admin position ($17/hr).
My last class was on a Tuesday, I interviewed and got an offer on the following Friday. Wasn't thrilled with it, because it was overnight work, but I knew a few managers at the company I want to ultimately work for, and they advised me that it's good to get in the door. Between that and having had several friends at the time who had already graduated and had serious trouble finding work in the field, I accepted the job.
Turned out the little that they told me about the job that made it appealing enough for me to say yes was not true. The work wasn't even technical. I sent emails and made calls all day. Basically, it turned out to be a "secretary" position, with the potential that I would one day be doing tech work. And it was interesting that it seemed you'd have to be desperate to work there, because I slowly realized all of the other people there, who weren't Tier 2 admins (Only 8 people worked in the office in all) were desperate, and not just desperate, but desperate as hell. One guy didn't have a degree, but he commuted 2 hours. Another guy had a degree from my school, but he was sleeping in his car. He didn't get a job in his field right away, so years later, he was taking what he could get. Another guy had been out of work for years.
I was told I'd have weekends off, they lied. I was told I would get 40 hours a week after the first few weeks of training, but a month later, the schedule was done for the next 6 months, and I had 30 every week, sometimes less. I was led to believe a few people in my office had worked their way up to their current positions, they lied. Even then, I didn't want to quit, but the contract ended two months later and they didn't bother to tell the team, I left.
Looking at job postings, skill-wise, I'm capable of a bunch of them, but they want experience, experience, experience. That and certifications. I had already planned to get one certification, because I planned on going that route. I was in a very unique position where I didn't need to be working, so I decided to focus on that and then I'd find work afterwards. About 6 months later, I've just about accomplished that (passed first half/taking second half in a few weeks).
Started looking for jobs since I have something more to offer now, and I see the same thing, experience, experience, experience. Even the ones that say "entry level" or "junior". They want 2 and 3 years of experience. Where in the hell am I supposed to get experience from if everybody wants me to have it, but nobody wants to give it to me? LOL. No wonder I always hear there are a lot of empty jobs. They're being unrealistic. It's a booming field, and I see jobs go up everyday, but they don't know what they should and shouldn't be asking for. Why 4 years of experience and not 3? Why 3 and not 2? Haven't they ever heard that you can't always have everything you want? Lol.
I graduated in December 2013 with my bachelors, and I entirely understand where you're coming from. You're not the only one who's noticed the experience gap, and I've seen many articles online blasting experience requirements, because they really are absolutely absurd.
But, there's hope.
You have to look at it this way. You've got a decent steady income (even at 30 hrs/week, you're still doing better than someone at $12/hr at 40 hours a week), so you don't technically need to find other employment. But of course, you spent time and money (lots of it) on your education, in a respectable field, and you want the compensation you deserve (and you want to actually be doing your job!) So I totally get it.
Use your free time to search for other IT jobs. If you search in your area, look for jobs around the same pay or slightly more (hey even if you take a job at the same pay, you might actually get to do IT work). Look other places, as well, with a higher salary requirement because in general, people don't want to move from where they're comfortable. But sometimes you have to go where the money is.
I grew up in an Amish town of 600 people in Pennsylvania. Even with 100 PhDs, there are no jobs available in that area. So I moved to Austin, TX, where I knew the economy was booming (which is actually a very, very, huge understatement). I got a job within a month that pays $55k, not bad for an anthropology degree. Now that I've got some experience in what I do, I like my company and my work, but I believe you should always be trying to better yourself, so I'm constantly applying for jobs and just giving them absurd salary requirements, because you just never know who might say, "Okay, we really need someone and this guy isn't perfectly qualified, but he's the most qualified. He asked for $100k a year. Call him and offer it to him."
At the end, don't let the experience levels get in the way. Sure, don't go out and apply for a director position that requires 10+ years of IT managerial experience, but anything asking for a few years, apply for it anyway.
Another technique to landing a job is to undercut the salary. Accept a lesser salary if it gets you the job. Because the experience is what you truly want to gain. Not saying settle for minimum wage, but if you see a job and you know that job starts at 70k, ask for 50k. The minute you ask for $71k is the minute they throw away your application.
I graduated in December 2013 with my bachelors, and I entirely understand where you're coming from. You're not the only one who's noticed the experience gap, and I've seen many articles online blasting experience requirements, because they really are absolutely absurd.
But, there's hope.
You have to look at it this way. You've got a decent steady income (even at 30 hrs/week, you're still doing better than someone at $12/hr at 40 hours a week), so you don't technically need to find other employment. But of course, you spent time and money (lots of it) on your education, in a respectable field, and you want the compensation you deserve (and you want to actually be doing your job!) So I totally get it.
Use your free time to search for other IT jobs. If you search in your area, look for jobs around the same pay or slightly more (hey even if you take a job at the same pay, you might actually get to do IT work). Look other places, as well, with a higher salary requirement because in general, people don't want to move from where they're comfortable. But sometimes you have to go where the money is.
I grew up in an Amish town of 600 people in Pennsylvania. Even with 100 PhDs, there are no jobs available in that area. So I moved to Austin, TX, where I knew the economy was booming (which is actually a very, very, huge understatement). I got a job within a month that pays $55k, not bad for an anthropology degree. Now that I've got some experience in what I do, I like my company and my work, but I believe you should always be trying to better yourself, so I'm constantly applying for jobs and just giving them absurd salary requirements, because you just never know who might say, "Okay, we really need someone and this guy isn't perfectly qualified, but he's the most qualified. He asked for $100k a year. Call him and offer it to him."
At the end, don't let the experience levels get in the way. Sure, don't go out and apply for a director position that requires 10+ years of IT managerial experience, but anything asking for a few years, apply for it anyway.
Another technique to landing a job is to undercut the salary. Accept a lesser salary if it gets you the job. Because the experience is what you truly want to gain. Not saying settle for minimum wage, but if you see a job and you know that job starts at 70k, ask for 50k. The minute you ask for $71k is the minute they throw away your application.
Well, I said I left that place, because the conditions I agreed to were not present. Basically, it turned out to be something where you give everything to them, and just maybe they'll let you do some sys admin stuff. I didn't go to school for 4-5 years to potentially be paid to do what I went there for. I've now spent some months out of the job force to better myself, and I started looking again last week. Actually got a few emails and a call so far, so I seem to be attracting some attention.
I understand what you're saying about location. I actually happen to live about 45 minutes outside of NYC (I'm in NJ). Tons of jobs over there. Even a lot more entry level positions. If it comes to that, I'll apply to those.
Yeah, money isn't so much my issue, even though I'm in this field in the first place because you can make a lot just by working your way up. I am certified now though, so I won't take anything lower than a certain amount unless, like you said, I can really see it's a good job that will allow me to really move up.
I'm not worried or anything, because things are looking up, and if worst comes to worst, I do have a few connections that will help me find work.
I just wanted to point out the whole experience thing. It's absurd, but I don't care, so I apply to those jobs anyways.
Started looking for jobs since I have something more to offer now, and I see the same thing, experience, experience, experience. Even the ones that say "entry level" or "junior". They want 2 and 3 years of experience. Where in the hell am I supposed to get experience from if everybody wants me to have it, but nobody wants to give it to me? LOL.
You gotta work for free!
Last edited by sandsthetime; 05-09-2015 at 04:35 PM..
Nah, the internship thing is a scam. Companies use it to get free labor. My division talks about hiring an intern to do our data entry and then just let them go at the end. They don't need a particular degree, sometimes not one at all, they all have zero experience... it works out for many people, but on the large scale it's just a scam.
Speaking of all of this, I'm gunna go apply to some jobs. I did have two phone interviews last week, but I was asking too much. One here in town I asked for $70k and the other $170k (it was in San Francisco where that's a good salary, but not great).
I'm sure living that close to nyc, you'll find something in no time.
Volunteer the skills that you have to offer. You know about computers/networking right? Is there a networking class that you can teach at a boys and girls club or some other service that you can provide without having to be paid for it? When you volunteer you'll get experience that may give you the advantage during the interview.
Volunteering at this point is stupid. You live in a high cost area. There are ample job opportunities. You need income. You probably couldn't be anywhere better than NYC metro. Go after it and you'll be doing better in short order.
Volunteering at this point is stupid. You live in a high cost area. There are ample job opportunities. You need income. You probably couldn't be anywhere better than NYC metro. Go after it and you'll be doing better in short order.
You have no idea what you're talking about. He/she could volunteer while looking for a job. Don't be thick Emigrations lol
You have no idea what you're talking about. He/she could volunteer while looking for a job. Don't be thick Emigrations lol
Doesn't the guy already have a job? He is accumulating experience now, but he's not being paid well. From what I've seen, volunteer experience often isn't even material to private sector work. He should be spending his efforts on finding better paying work, not volunteering.
To be perfectly honest. Things are starting to become like Japan, long work hours, unpaid overtime, no vacation, not many good paying jobs, and very competitive. Obviously, here in the states things aren't as bad, but it sure seems like we are heading that way. A lot of people here in states admire the Japanese or like their culture, but they fail to look into what it's like working in Japan as salaryman. Full time jobs are not easy to acquire even for low wage jobs. In many ways here in states it's like that already. Ever since the 1991 economic collapse, Japan has had very little economic growth. That is what we can expect if growth doesn't pick up in the States. Hopefully things turn around. It's unfortunate that we graduated in a time of little economic growth.
I feel sad that some of my same age peers have given into depression and play games all day and drinking. It's like they stop trying. I don't even know if they work any more. They don't have degrees. It's like they lost hope. At least we have hope of acquiring a good paying job. Keep applying and try to keep your spirits up. If there is one thing we both will learn from this experience is that you shouldn't take a job for granted. I am in the same boat. I don't work full time, but at least I now have some income. I rather work than play games. Strangely, I find it more enjoyable going to work than playing games. I was so close to getting hired last month. Unfortunately, I was not selected.
Last edited by NekoLogic; 05-09-2015 at 08:05 PM..
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