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Old 05-17-2015, 01:42 PM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,506,923 times
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so you mean they used "student" labor as "cheap" temp labor?

I could see that happening, mostly because the programs are specialized to that plant, but from how it looks, the Toyota model seems generic enough that they can move to different company plants too, not sure if true but hopefully so.

But what you said was that the people who left, took the skills with them... I don't see how that is bad, the company got short term "cheaper" labor, and the people got a skill that they could take with them (as you pointed out).

Or are you upset that the students didn't stay in the area? That's how it is in any college town.
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Old 05-17-2015, 02:26 PM
 
18,529 posts, read 15,510,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
A company short on skilled workers creates its own college-degree program | American RadioWorks |

It's refreshing to see a company willing to step forward and tackle their own problems... Instead of demanding tax payer subsidies or whining that Americans don't want to work while sending jobs elsewhere. Too bad Americans don't celebrate that type of culture. Always someone else's problem to fix, am I right?

Internal training programs fell out of vogue in America when short term corporate profits became the prime focus. Now, many of those firms are struggling to find the kinds of workers required to keep their operations churning. Some American firms are trying to train in house again, but that's not something that can be turned on like a light switch for many, many reasons.

$12/hr is pretty crappy though. No wonder they can't find competent workers. Giving people some sort of diploma or certificate is not going to change that, no matter what some Harvard business dolt might believe though. If companies expect to find trainable candidates, they better up the ante. Time is not on their side, so they better get it right.
When the economy was depressed in 2011 and 2012, I predicted that companies would start training again at roughly the time unemployment got below 6%, maybe with some delay. Guess I wasn't too far off.
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Old 05-17-2015, 05:31 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,721,623 times
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How about the people here, hollering about the $12 an hour being too little.

Group #1---These young people are going to school and also working. They will have no student debt, and they are guaranteed a job when they complete the program with an average pay of $65,000 a year.

Group #2---Then we see college students working at McDonald's for $8 an hour while they are going into debt as much as $10,000 or more a year in student debt. They go to college for twice as long as the other program, and they have no guaranteed job at the end of college. Most of them will start at far less than $65,000 per year.

My question is: Which is the most intelligent when it comes to making decisions as to what to do about getting an education. I take #1 every time.
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Old 05-17-2015, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,699 posts, read 24,780,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
How about the people here, hollering about the $12 an hour being too little.

Group #1---These young people are going to school and also working. They will have no student debt, and they are guaranteed a job when they complete the program with an average pay of $65,000 a year.
I find it hard to believe that these folks will go from $12/hr to 65K without working some serious OT. And 65K is nothing special when you're working 80 hours a week for it.

Companies have made statements like this all the time. They also make big promises that they can't always keep. It's no different than other manufacturing companies that make big promises to get workers in the door. When labor costs grow too large, they shut down and move elsewhere. This is like hitting a reset button on labor costs because they can start workers on the bottom again. Or, they just let their expensive workers go in favor of some new hires.

It's no different for experienced workers. They will offer the same money for workers with the right skill set, but claim that the worker has to first learn their system. I experienced this about 2 years ago when a large corp called me about a position offering some form of certification. The pay they were offering was $12/hr, no negotiation. Of course, I did not take the offer, but the company publicly maintains that they cannot find workers. When I read about the program, it sounded like they were training glorified machine operators with limited skill or opportunity for advancement. Very common in manufacturing.
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Old 05-17-2015, 08:42 PM
 
33,862 posts, read 16,906,563 times
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Toyota won't move, as they are in a region with a favorable climate for auto manufacturing already. If they were in a high cost mfg region, the idea they may move would be credible.
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Old 05-18-2015, 02:21 AM
 
Location: South Texas
4,248 posts, read 4,145,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
I should have been clearer that $12 an hour full-time is enough to live off of in San Antonio. That puts you above the poverty line and above the living wage line set by the City of San Antonio. However, if you're working part-time, then you will not be able to afford your own apartment.

When someone attends an accredited college, they can receive federal and state financial aid and use the leftover funds for living expenses. When you're being sponsored by a company to go through an unaccredited program like the people in this article, then you will need to find time for a second job on top of working part-time for your sponsor and attending training. So, yeah, one would probably need a roommate or to live with family members. For this particular program, Toyota is paying $12 an hour while the employee is in training.
You're preaching to the choir; I've been living in SA for 25 years. I know what it takes to pay the rent, CPS, and SAWS bills. And I know that the $65K-$80K that folks at the Toyota plant are making is more than enough to live comfortably here.
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Old 05-18-2015, 07:35 AM
 
733 posts, read 850,243 times
Reputation: 1895
Unions...Unions...Unions

They are needed again.
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Old 05-18-2015, 07:57 AM
 
Location: TN/NC
34,943 posts, read 31,079,407 times
Reputation: 47324
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
I find it hard to believe that these folks will go from $12/hr to 65K without working some serious OT. And 65K is nothing special when you're working 80 hours a week for it.

Companies have made statements like this all the time. They also make big promises that they can't always keep. It's no different than other manufacturing companies that make big promises to get workers in the door. When labor costs grow too large, they shut down and move elsewhere. This is like hitting a reset button on labor costs because they can start workers on the bottom again. Or, they just let their expensive workers go in favor of some new hires.

It's no different for experienced workers. They will offer the same money for workers with the right skill set, but claim that the worker has to first learn their system. I experienced this about 2 years ago when a large corp called me about a position offering some form of certification. The pay they were offering was $12/hr, no negotiation. Of course, I did not take the offer, but the company publicly maintains that they cannot find workers. When I read about the program, it sounded like they were training glorified machine operators with limited skill or opportunity for advancement. Very common in manufacturing.
A lot of these manufacturing positions down South start in the $12/hr range unless you have a unique skill. I also doubt these folks will be making anywhere near $65k. I don't see how this is such a good idea.
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Old 05-18-2015, 04:34 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,721,623 times
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Quote:
A lot of these manufacturing positions down South start in the $12/hr range unless you have a unique skill. I also doubt these folks will be making anywhere near $65k. I don't see how this is such a good idea.
Actually Toyota plants pay more than GM in Detroit for average wages and was doing so as far back as 2008.

GM Vs. Toyota Wages And Benefits

Foreign owned plants in the U.S. are known to pay better than the U.S. owned plants. And foreign owned facilities have been increasing hiring by 1,000,000 employees per year, and are expected to do so each year for the next 10 years.

You don't think this is such a good idea. In other words when today the modern plant is highly automated, and the only way you are going to get the employees that know how to keep the robotic equipment running is to train them yourself. They pay only $12 an hour, but how many college students do you know that are paid for the hours they go to college. Many work part time for less than $12 an hour, and pay for going to college and going into deep debt.

How would you like to go to college half time and work at learning the job half time, and paid $12 an hour for both. That is like getting $24 an hour for a half time job and attend class without pay, and not having to pay for your college classes, getting your education free.

With that in mind, just imagine graduating in half the time of going to college, graduating with no debt, and a guaranteed job at $65,000 average pay. Those Toyota program graduates, are going to have skills that will get them jobs for the rest of their lives, as more and more companies automate. They are the workforce of the future. They are so badly needed that they will earn more money than most college graduates when they finish their training program and do in in half the time.

Wake up. The world is changing. A lot of college graduates are training for the jobs of the past, which need less and less employees so there is a big surplus of graduates far exceeding the need for them. The Toyota program graduates are training for the jobs of the future, and there will not be enough people with their skills as the world of manufacturing turns to robots and automate so their jobs will be secure for their working life.

We are told that half the jobs people will be working at in 10 years have not even been invented yet. Jobs like these technicians that Toyota is turning out. There will be increasing jobs for decades in this field, and not enough people trained to fill the jobs.

The problem today, is that colleges are turning out graduates for jobs of the past, not the future. So companies like Toyota are having to run classes to train people for jobs that they will need filled as they are not available other places.
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Old 05-18-2015, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Ohio
2,801 posts, read 2,303,477 times
Reputation: 1654
This thread is another example of why so many people claim they "Can't find a job" or "There are no jobs", you can't compare West and East Coast income requirements with what is needed in the rest of the country...
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