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Can you send the boss an email that says, I just want to be sure I understand so can you please confirm that I'm supposed to this X way? The email should CYA if it's not correct later. The tricky thing is to get it in writing without making the CYA aspect obvious.
In my experience when something goes wrong I ask management for help on how I can better my performance and that usually shuts them up. Management is usually too lazy to actually help you improve in the workplace so if you accept their criticism and then ask them for help their complaints usually go away. I've tried and accomplished that several times in the last few years with amazing success believe it or not.
In my current job, there's definitely been a lot of issues dealing with my boss setting me up to fail. My manager is really wishy washy about the way she does things. She will tell me to do something that is pretty obviously not correct, but when I try to explain to her why it is wrong, she yells at me and says I don't know since I'm inexperienced and that she knows the right way to do it because she has so many years experience. So she basically forces me to do it in a way which I'm sure it probably not right, and I turn the assignment in. Well she turns it over to her boss and IT IS WRONG. (just like I thought). The problem is, she puts the blame on saying I must not know how to do it correctly. She'll come back to me and ask me to do it the way I originally wanted to do it, but take no responsibility for her actions. She says I should have presented more evidence to her that it was wrong before doing it.... Unfortunately, no matter how I try to tell her we need to do the work differently, she will just endlessly insist her way is correct till her boss says it is not....
So in short, boss tells me to do something incorrectly, I explain it's incorrect, she says I'm wrong so I do it her way, she hands it to her bosses and they say its wrong, she blames me for doing it wrong, all her bosses think I'm a terrible employee.....
This is just one of many instances where I feel like I'm getting **** on unfairly but I'm afraid to stand up for myself because of how it did not work out for me in the past. Higher ups always side with management.... It sadly almost always turns into a "he said she said" unless you have some crazy documentation/paper trail saying otherwise.
I have a tough time in these types of situations deciding where to draw the line with being set up to take falls versus actually receiving constructive or thoughtful criticism.
Document, document , document.
"I just want to make sure I'm clear on your requirements for Project X.
I can agree with this for sure. Unfortunately, the majority of companies I worked for have harbored a vicious and toxic work environment of backstabbing, treachery, blackmail, disrespect, bitterness, passive aggressiveness, etc.
Unfortunately, I can confirm that this is incredibly common, especially when times are tight.
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On the flip side, I've worked for a rare few companies that have been very pleasant to work for and have been very respectful and professional to all their employees. These were companies where you could speak your opinions and stand up for yourself and people respected you for that.
Out of curiosity, why did you leave these great jobs? What describe sounds like a dream. I hope you didn't leave to chase more money. If you did, this is a great career lesson.
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Unfortunately, most companies do seem to be those toxic ones where you really can't stand up for yourself at all... It's been a challenge of me in these types of environments to just keep my mouth shut and take the blame when it's not my blame to take.
It sounds like you need a new job with a different manager. I'm a manager myself, but I'm confident enough in my value, skills, ability, etc to freely admit when I'm wrong and to collaborate with others that report to me when they have good ideas.
Out of curiosity, why did you leave these great jobs? What describe sounds like a dream. I hope you didn't leave to chase more money. If you did, this is a great career lesson.
It sounds like you need a new job with a different manager. I'm a manager myself, but I'm confident enough in my value, skills, ability, etc to freely admit when I'm wrong and to collaborate with others that report to me when they have good ideas.
The jobs that were great were contract jobs that I had to move on from after the end of my contract. They were project based hires, so come end of the project these people are let go. I would have loved to have been retained, but it rarely happens. Nonetheless, they were wonderful work experiences and I hope to find a similar work environment (full-time) in the future.
Right now I would love to quit my job, this work environment has been by far and wide the most toxic work environment I've ever had the displeasure to work in. However, I'm currently finishing my Bachelor's degree (3 month's left), and the medical benefits are EXTREMELY good. Originally I didn't think it would be too bad to work here for 3-5 years to gain some valuable experience, but at this point I just want to finish my degree and immediately begin looking for new work.
The jobs that were great were contract jobs that I had to move on from after the end of my contract. They were project based hires, so come end of the project these people are let go. I would have loved to have been retained, but it rarely happens. Nonetheless, they were wonderful work experiences and I hope to find a similar work environment (full-time) in the future.
Ok, this makes a lot of sense and here's the best thing, you now have more than one company to target for full-time employment when you finish your degree!
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Right now I would love to quit my job, this work environment has been by far and wide the most toxic work environment I've ever had the displeasure to work in. However, I'm currently finishing my Bachelor's degree (3 month's left), and the medical benefits are EXTREMELY good. Originally I didn't think it would be too bad to work here for 3-5 years to gain some valuable experience, but at this point I just want to finish my degree and immediately begin looking for new work.
Absolutely don't quit any job until you have your next job if at all possible, ever. You're wise to stick it out while finishing your degree. I suggest you start looking for next job now if you haven't already started. When I was finishing my BS, it's what I did and ended up getting an offer for a job they wanted me to start *before* finished my last class. So I ended up working for a company for almost 6 months prior to graduation.
Yes, get everything in email! If several tasks are dumped on you at once, be sure to get the order of priority and expected deadlines. I had a boss who just didn't like the fact that I was in my position (I was a supervisor) and made my job hell. My counterpart, who did the exact same thing I did, admitted to me that he treated her totally different, even in similar situations. I'd been at the company five years and had a wonderful relationship with my previous boss. Do the best work possible, and be on the look out for better opportunities within the company or even somewhere else.
This is something I've tended to struggle with in my career. (as a twenty year old something still pretty new to the career world - 5 years experience currently)
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Originally Posted by the_grimace
She will tell me to do something that is pretty obviously not correct, but when I try to explain to her why it is wrong, she yells at me and says I don't know since I'm inexperienced and that she knows the right way to do it because she has so many years experience.
First question... if you are so new, how do you even know it is not the correct way of doing it? I'm sure you've heard of the saying that there are multiple ways of doing something... It might not be your way but why is not correct? Not saying that her way is "correct" either... but if it works, why not just do it her way? And when you are autonomous, you can do it your way later on?
Did you even ask her why she does it that way? There might be a reason that it is done that way... Even if she tells you that 1+1 is 3, if that is how the company operates, that is the "correct" way to add...
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I tend to have a very strong personality and can definitely be outspoken at times.
um... not a strong personality at all... you come across as unwilling to learn and inflexible. If you were strong, you would be able to just learn to do it their way, and if it isn't "essential" then you can do it your way later and if you can justify why it doesn't do any harm, it wouldn't matter. IE: who cares if the phone is on the left side of desk? But if that is "how it is done", then do it that way until it becomes your desk, then you can change it
as for the title, you should never take abuse... but why do you feel the need to "defend" your way of doing it when you haven't been around long enough to "establish" a way of doing things
In my current job, there's definitely been a lot of issues dealing with my boss setting me up to fail. My manager is really wishy washy about the way she does things. She will tell me to do something that is pretty obviously not correct, but when I try to explain to her why it is wrong, she yells at me and says I don't know since I'm inexperienced and that she knows the right way to do it because she has so many years experience. So she basically forces me to do it in a way which I'm sure it probably not right, and I turn the assignment in. Well she turns it over to her boss and IT IS WRONG. (just like I thought). The problem is, she puts the blame on saying I must not know how to do it correctly. She'll come back to me and ask me to do it the way I originally wanted to do it, but take no responsibility for her actions. She says I should have presented more evidence to her that it was wrong before doing it.... Unfortunately, no matter how I try to tell her we need to do the work differently, she will just endlessly insist her way is correct till her boss says it is not....
So in short, boss tells me to do something incorrectly, I explain it's incorrect, she says I'm wrong so I do it her way, she hands it to her bosses and they say its wrong, she blames me for doing it wrong, all her bosses think I'm a terrible employee.....
This is just one of many instances where I feel like I'm getting **** on unfairly but I'm afraid to stand up for myself because of how it did not work out for me in the past. Higher ups always side with management.... It sadly almost always turns into a "he said she said" unless you have some crazy documentation/paper trail saying otherwise.
I have a tough time in these types of situations deciding where to draw the line with being set up to take falls versus actually receiving constructive or thoughtful criticism.
Thanks for that great and very complete explanation!
In that one example, at least, I don't think you were wrong -- and I have been in positions from the lowest entry level job to having a staff of fourteen and two assistants, and several positions where part of my responsibility was hiring and firing. (I am now retired, fyi.)
One thing I would suggest is to NOT go head to head, but to document. For example, after you have (calmly and respectfully) explained "your way" of doing something, you can try sending her an e-mail saying something like, "I am sorry if I did not make myself clear, but I have found (or learned) that doing blah-blah-blah is better because blah-blah-blah. Of course, I understand that this is your decision to make, but I am just concerned that maybe I was not clear enough." In other words, there is a way to kiss a$$, but to still stick to your guns. If she comes back and says something like, "I'm the boss and what I say is final," then you can say, "Sorry. I was just trying to help." THEN, if doing it comes back to bite her (and you) in the butt, you have at least covered your a$$ and proven that you were NOT insubordinate, and so then the blame will fall where it should -- or at least it will if the there are not any other kind of office politics or drama going on between your boss and her boss, and your boss's boss and fair and wants what is best for the company. (Of course, you will probably incur her wrath, but you need to decide if keeping your job is worth it -- but, again, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT! And I know what you said about a "crazy documentation/paper trail", but believe me, in most companies, you need to do it to CYA.)
Yeah, sometimes the corporate world is not one bit fair and sometimes it truly does "suck". I was SO happy to leave it!
It's more about HOW you communicate your disagreements than anything.there are tactful smart professional ways to communicate things. Even the tone of your voice and timing matters.
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