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That car payment is the thing that stands out most to me. When you add gas and car insurance - you're paying uncomfortably close to what your mortgage is for your car.
The cable/internet too - I feel like that can be closer to $100. I pay $125, and that is only because I'm a sports fan and avoiding just 2 visits to a sports bar to watch my team a month justifies the cable bill and staying home to watch it. I consider the $70 or so that internet costs to be a required payment.
The car payment is probably a little high, but I just mentioned what my living expenses are, not what we actually make. After counting 401ks and other investments we save more than we spend per month. Plus, I'm sure there are plenty of 2 car families that have insurance, gas, and car payments that are within 75-80% of their mortgage. One payment is over a few years, the other is over 30 years.
The cable is probably a little expensive, but I too like sports, like to watch my Cardinals every night and I am out of town, so I have to pay for the regional sports package.
I fit in category 1 right now and I am satisfied with that for now since I am a recent college graduate and only 22 years old but my ultimate goal is to be in category 3 ten years from now. By then, I hoping my career has taken off and I have a salary that can afford that lifestyle. I think the American Dream is considered to be under category 3.
American dream for my wife and I is to pay off our home, have a boat at the harbor, fund our retirement, and travel in our motor home. Our kids want to own their own homes as well and they seem to want to do that right here in high cost of living Coastal California. We will see how it works out for them.
What is considered the American Dream is a major toss up. I currently have my own apartment with no roommates, I own a car but it's not a brand new car and it's paid for. Where I live you can't substitute a car for public transportation since I commute 25 miles one way to work. I do have enough money to take a week vacation if I wanted to but it would drain all the money I have in reserves. What I meant about fitting in category 3 is having a mortgage on a house you own, be able to afford a brand new car (it doesn't have to be a BMW or Mercedes), be able to save 20% of your income, be able to afford a couple kids, and be able to take a luxury 7 day cruise or a flight to Paris once or twice a year. That is my definition of the American Dream and that is beyond a modest lifestyle. The average individual in America makes 28,000 a year and the average household/ family makes 52,000 a year. It takes more than that in order to afford that lifestyle so if you can do the things I listed, you are better off than most individuals in America and probably be considered in the top 25% of income grossers.
I am a single so I try to describe a typically family of 4 in a typically German small or midsize town:
He works in a machinery factory and gets a typically average annual gross salary of €52k. This would be about €3,050 net income per month.
She works part-time at a grocery store and gets an annual gross salary of €18k. This would be about €1,000 net income per month.
The family get child allowance of €368 per month.
Monthly net income: €4,418
(The monthly social benefits for a family of 4 without own income living in a small or midsize town would be between €2,000 and €2,100)Monthly expenditures: Rent for a decent sized 4 bedroom semi detached house: €650
Utilities (water, heating, drainage fees): €200 Gross rent: €850
I think it's a very nice house (build in 2003). The living space of 140m² maybe seems a little bit small for American standards, but the calculation methods for living spaces are quite different in Germany. For example the areas below roof slopes are only partly counted. Also the house has a fully sized cellar (used for party room, hobby room, study, storage, laundry). The cellar is also not counted as living space. This house is quite spacious.
Electricity: €100
TV, phone, internet plan at home: €40
TV fees: €20
4 cell phone plans: €60
Household supplies: €40
Furniture: €150
Appliances: €80
Food: €600 (more than enough)
Car: €520
- monthly instalment: €250
- fuel: €100
- insurance, tax: €70
- reserve fund for maintenance: €100
Clothing: €300 (more than enough)
Personal care products, hairdresser: €150
Pocket money for the kids: €100
Entertainment, leisure: €250
Public transportation: €100
Insurances (liability, household): €50 Total (beside the rent): €2,560
Total expenditures: €3,410
Savings: €1,008
Maybe I forgot some expenditures. I don't know.A nice 2 weeks vacation in Spain for a family of 4 cost maybe €4,000. Remain more than €8,000 per year for savings or other expenditures, that I forgot.
Of course it would be much tighter in cities with high rents like Munich or Hamburg.
The median disposable household income in Germany in 2012 was 3,133 per month. This is much lower than the €4,418 from my example. There are many retirees, often single households, with very low incomes, that pull down the average income. I guess it's similar in the U.S. The median income for a family of 4 in the U.S. is probably higher than $52k per year.
The size of an average household in Germany is 2.0 persons, that's pretty low.
A family of 4 that isn't able to make at least a one week vacation abroad, would be considered as very poor in Germany.
I am a single so I try to describe a typically family of 4 in a typically German small or midsize town:
He works in a machinery factory and gets a typically average annual gross salary of €52k. This would be about €3,050 net income per month.
She works part-time at a grocery store and gets an annual gross salary of €18k. This would be about €1,000 net income per month.
The family get child allowance of €368 per month.
Monthly net income: €4,418
(The monthly social benefits for a family of 4 without own income living in a small or midsize town would be between €2,000 and €2,100)Monthly expenditures: Rent for a decent sized 4 bedroom semi detached house: €650
Utilities (water, heating, drainage fees): €200 Gross rent: €850
I think it's a very nice house (build in 2003). The living space of 140m² maybe seems a little bit small for American standards, but the calculation methods for living spaces are quite different in Germany. For example the areas below roof slopes are only partly counted. Also the house has a fully sized cellar (used for party room, hobby room, study, storage, laundry). The cellar is also not counted as living space. This house is quite spacious.
Electricity: €100
TV, phone, internet plan at home: €40
TV fees: €20
4 cell phone plans: €60
Household supplies: €40
Furniture: €150
Appliances: €80
Food: €600 (more than enough)
Car: €520
- monthly instalment: €250
- fuel: €100
- insurance, tax: €70
- reserve fund for maintenance: €100
Clothing: €300 (more than enough)
Personal care products, hairdresser: €150
Pocket money for the kids: €100
Entertainment, leisure: €250
Public transportation: €100
Insurances (liability, household): €50 Total (beside the rent): €2,560
Total expenditures: €3,410
Savings: €1,008
Maybe I forgot some expenditures. I don't know.A nice 2 weeks vacation in Spain for a family of 4 cost maybe €4,000. Remain more than €8,000 per year for savings or other expenditures, that I forgot.
Of course it would be much tighter in cities with high rents like Munich or Hamburg.
The median disposable household income in Germany in 2012 was 3,133 per month. This is much lower than the €4,418 from my example. There are many retirees, often single households, with very low incomes, that pull down the average income. I guess it's similar in the U.S. The median income for a family of 4 in the U.S. is probably higher than $52k per year.
The size of an average household in Germany is 2.0 persons, that's pretty low.
A family of 4 that isn't able to make at least a one week vacation abroad, would be considered as very poor in Germany.
I don't know whether child allowance is an appropriate translation.
I guess that almost all European countries have something like Kindergeld.
Kindergeld in Germany per month:
1. child: €184
2. child: €184
3. child: €190
each further child: €215
You can also choose an allowable deduction of €7,008 per child and year. That makes sense for people with high incomes.
You get Kindergeld at least until your child is 18 years old or until the child has finished his university education or his apprenticeship, but no longer than age 25. If you get Kindergeld for the whole 25 years, you would get €55,200 in total.
But despite the Kindergeld and many other generous family benefits the birth rate in Germany is the lowest or one of the lowest in the world. That is so sad
I often nag about America, but it's so nice to see that they have such a high birth rate.
I am not sure, but has the U.S. not a regulation for tax deductions dependent on the number of kids?
Anywhere in 40K to 60K regardless of location I make 50k and live okay in California.
Some people here may say you need more money but those are people who can't manage their money have too much debt or try to live a life they can't afford
Wow. How dare you talk like a conservative? What do you mean by people living a lifestyle they can't afford? You know why they can't afford it? Because the CEOs and the fat cats have stolen all their wealth. They have debt because the CEOs and fat cats refuse to pay them enough to pay off their vacations.
I am not sure, but has the U.S. not a regulation for tax deductions dependent on the number of kids?
we have child tax credits too in the US. It's just a bit lower though at $1k/child
But you listed "savings", from what I've heard about in Germany, people "save" and not "invest". I'm not sure if this is accurate but I heard that the "public"/average person does not view the stock market as "safe" for an investment.
It just kind of sucks if that is how it is done, I mean well... outside of "social security"/pensions, do Germans not have much in a way for wealth creation? I mean the ones that aren't business owners. Even high income people (though the doctors there make less than in US too from my understanding) doesn't really "get" rich from just high income if they aren't investing it.
Quote:
They have debt because the CEOs and fat cats refuse to pay them enough to pay off their vacations.
they have debt BECAUSE they keep trying to buy things they can't afford >.> even a homeless guy making $0 could be "poor" but not have debt... you think everyone would have no debt if they just got paid enough? That's unrealistic...
But you listed "savings", from what I've heard about in Germany, people "save" and not "invest". I'm not sure if this is accurate but I heard that the "public"/average person does not view the stock market as "safe" for an investment.
It just kind of sucks if that is how it is done, I mean well... outside of "social security"/pensions, do Germans not have much in a way for wealth creation? I mean the ones that aren't business owners. Even high income people (though the doctors there make less than in US too from my understanding) doesn't really "get" rich from just high income if they aren't investing it.
Wealth of private households in 2010 in Germany:
Real estate: €5,700bn
Money, deposits: €1,861bn
Demands towards life insurances: €1,358bn
Stocks: €933bn
Others: €365bn
The Demands against the public security and pension system is not considered as wealth in Germany.
It's true that the average German don't trust the stock market. Stocks make less than 10% of the private household wealth. Real estate makes more than half of the wealth. It's called Betongeld (concrete money) in Germany. It's for example common to use savings for buying a condo. Indeed only about 43% of German households live in their own dwelling, but nearly 81% of the 41m housing units in Germany are owned by private households. I for example live in a rented apartment in Düsseldorf, but I rent out my detached house in Kleve which I had inherited.
Most Germans don't trust the stock market. In my opinion the stock market is mainly a bad thing. The economy (nominal) can maybe grow with an annual rate of 5%. Therefore annual rises in the stock markets of above 10% are very unfaithful. They are not coverd by real values. It justs leads to more inflation and even more inequality. The poor in the U.S. are fobbed off with very low wages, but they are confonted with extremely high living costs. That's in my opinion a result of the American obsession with the stock market. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole system will crash again. It seems to work more like a snowball system. Maybe casino capitalism is a good term to describe it. This is a modern pattern of slavery. People getting rich through the stock market and pay services from poor people with worhtless bills, so the poor can buy services from other poor people. But those filthy rich people don't offer real values to the society.
Of course people invest their money in Germany. Maybe the interest is lower in Germany than in the U.S. but therefore it leads to less inflated prices. The investments are better covered with real values. Inflated equity prices doesn't mean real values.
Most Americans seem to have the desire to get rich. Most Germans want to live well, but therefore you don't have to be rich. Americans want to make money, but that doesn't leads to more prosperity if the money isn't covered by real values.
In my opinion we already have way to much extremely rich people in Germany.
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Yes of course! 
