what is your definition of a livable wage (employment, debt, middle class)

[Professor Oak]

I love to hear what people nowadays here consider a livable wage
In the retail thread that was posted this got me curious.
Because some people says that some jobs or most jobs don't pay a livable wage so i want to hear from the City Data Member here what is your definition of a livable wage? How much must it pay? the hours worked? Should it have benefits?

My definition of a livable wage for Employment
is 20 Dollars an hour and up with Health Benefits and 40 to 45 hours of work.
This should be enough for rent as well as a decend amount left for savings and going out or whatevers
I can get by anywhere with this wage even in LA
I wont be rich but I will live and not be hungry on it and I am a single person

[Serious Conversation]

Probably about $15-$20/hr with benefits here in Indiana.

[stan4]

The better your benefits, the lower the actual wage can be to be considered livable.

[MLSFan]

Depends on what kind of living you want...
just to be livable, I don't think requires having enough to "save" for the future or going out or whatevers...

Most of the extra would be disposable income, not really what is needed to "live"...

just leave it at minimum wage levels

My definition of a livable wage for Employment

isn't this more of what you are willing to accept working for? Not really want you "need" to live

[Professor Oak]

Originally Posted by eyeb

Depends on what kind of living you want...
just to be livable, I don't think requires having enough to "save" for the future or going out or whatevers...

Most of the extra would be disposable income, not really what is needed to "live"...

just leave it at minimum wage levels
isn't this more of what you are willing to accept working for? Not really want you "need" to live

Liveable wage in my case just doesn't PAY THE RENT it gives you enough money for all your basic living without relying on parents and pays enough rent and leaves a decent amount for whatever else extra.
Emergency do come up and that saving can save your ass to live sometimes.
You never know so thats why I put it that way

[MLSFan]

so save the tax refund each year for the emergency savings

You want a middle class lifestyle, that is above just a livable wage. or how do you define middle class wage? how does livable fall between minimum and middle then?

[Professor Oak]

Originally Posted by eyeb

so save the tax refund each year for the emergency savings

You want a middle class lifestyle, that is above just a livable wage. or how do you define middle class wage? how does livable fall between minimum and middle then?

With a 20 dollars wage anyone is able to live off a minimum wage or middle class lifestyle but it really just depends on your lifestyle too. I live a very bare bones lifestyle I have the cheapest phone plan, cheapest rent, cheapest car, no debt etc. So I have plenty enough for saving, and it pays my food, and everything else basically.
It falls in between since you can save just a little but if you want to save more you can cut off more things.

[bUU]

Originally Posted by Professor Oak

I love to hear what people nowadays here consider a livable wage
In the retail thread that was posted this got me curious. ... My definition of a livable wage for Employment
is 20 Dollars an hour and up with Health Benefits and 40 to 45 hours of work.

That's an arbitrary definition. The term is "living wage" or "livable wage". It isn't "20 dollars an hour wage". The definition isn't an amount of money.

A living wage is a wage with which one is able to afford to live. That's vague, because "to live" isn't explicit, so the definition needs to be expanded to specify what it means "to live". That's going to reflect what people understand to be the minimal circumstances under which they would consider reasonable conditions within which to live, i.e., the ability to afford a certain minimal amount and quality of food, the ability to afford a certain minimal residence, the ability to afford a certain minimal level of security, clothing, healthcare, education, transportation, etc.

There is remarkably little confusion about what each individual would consider their own minimal level of the basic necessities of living. The reason why living wage discussions get contentious is that people who want to obstruct or deny living wages for others, because of how acknowledging the actuality of a living wage will likely affect their own comfort and luxury, [a] won't admit their implied and baseless claim of primacy over others, with regard to the matter of basic necessities; [b] won't admit that they themselves would consider unacceptable the prevailing sub-minimal levels of basic necessities that those who earn less than a living wage have to accept; or [c] will avoid directly addressing the matter entirely by seeking to try to divorce themselves from the obligations as a member of the society that provided them the opportunities within which they were able to avoid having to face the prospect of sub-minimal living - claiming something like, "I've got mine so why should I care about economic injustice visited on others?"

Regardless, the fact that the words are words... "living wage"... means that the only reasonable definition must start qualitatively, and since the end-result of that qualitative description will cost different amounts of money in different areas, a "living wage" will vary from place to place.

[katharsis]

Originally Posted by bUU

That's an arbitrary definition. The term is "living wage" or "livable wage". It isn't "20 dollars an hour wage". The definition isn't an amount of money.

A living wage is a wage with which one is able to afford to live. That's vague, because "to live" isn't explicit, so the definition needs to be expanded to specify what it means "to live". That's going to reflect people's understand of the minimal circumstances under which they would consider reasonable conditions within which to live, i.e., the ability to afford a certain minimal amount and quality of food, the ability to afford a certain minimal residence, the ability to afford a certain minimal level of security, clothing, healthcare, education, transportation, etc.

There is remarkably little confusion about what each individual would consider their own minimal level of the basic necessities of living. The reason why living wage discussions get contentious is that people who want to obstruct or deny living wages for others, because of how it will likely affect their own comfort and luxury, [a] won't admit their implied and baseless claim of primacy over others, with regard to the matter of basic necessities; [b] won't admit that they themselves would consider unacceptable the prevailing sub-minimal levels of basic necessities that those who earn less than a living wage have to accept; or [c] will avoid directly addressing the matter entirely by seeking to try to divorce themselves from the obligations as a member of the society that provided them the opportunities within which they were able to avoid having to face the prospect of sub-minimal living - claiming something like, "I've got mine so why should I care about economic injustice visited on others?"

EXACTLY. I think the term "livable wage" is almost meaningless by itself. It depends on where you live and how many dependents one has. Assuming a 40-hour work week, an adult CAN live on a minimum wage if he shares a cheap one-bedroom apartment with another minimum wage adult, they live on basic food that they cook themselves, and they take the bus. (Now I am definitely not saying this is a great quality of life, but it is do-able.) However, even double minimum wage is not nearly enough for a single mom with at least one small child unless she has some kind of government assistance, child support, alimony, etc. or a combination of these.

[blueherons]

Here in South Florida it would be about $30 an hour.