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I need serious help with this matter. I'm desperate to know if anyone has been in my position and what alternatives did they choose that can help me find my way. For those that are veterans like me in the tax industry, please let me know what you guys did and for those that are considering tax for their profession, I implore that you read below and really think about what you're getting yourself into.
I recently turned 30 years old and I'm coming up to 31. I have been in tax accounting for 5-6 years now, and still currently working in a Big 4 firm. I unfortunately started my tax career back when the recession had occurred in 2008, having initially applied for an accounting role and got hired as one, but somehow the time i started, a tax director at the company retired, and management decided to shove me into the tax role. Despite me not wanting/having any tax experience, it was nearly impossible for me to quit in a recession. Gotta pay those bills.
My first two years was in corporate tax, and the last three going into four years has been hedge fund/private equity tax. To add more color, I am in financial services and not in consumer products, which also made it even more difficult for myself. For those out there that sorta know what I mean, I know nothing about ASC 740 or FAS 109 (very important to know for corporate tax!). Like a previous poster who had created a thread, I can honestly say that I do not like tax. It's very stressful, demanding, downright difficult, and the hours are terrible. Tax is busy half of the year -- 6 months we're busy and 6 months we're not so to explain further, Feb -April (busy) July - Sep (busy). The hours are horrendous - I came home from work to my wife one morning at 7:00am when she was just about to get ready for work, and i came to a realization that this can't be the rest of my life! Some people have said "go private" and that's another reason why I hate tax. The job opportunities are incredibly scarce and rare. As I've progressed in my career (I am now a manager), the more I realized its impossible to find a private opportunity for the below four reasons:
1) Most private jobs in tax are outsourced to the big 4 firms. This is because there isn't a need for a large in-house team. they file quarterly estimate and forms, and final year end compliance. It's unlike accounting where trades and books/journal entries need to be closed everyday.
2) ...BECAUSE there isn't a need for a large in-house team, usually the positions are something along the lines of
---- head of tax (partner/principal)
----- a senior (4-5 years of experience, and MAYBE
----- an associate (2-3 years)
3) Point number 2 makes it hard for me as a manager to apply for positions. I'm either compensated too high or too qualified. The title scares them away when I apply EVEN though i put down for 'salary compensation' something that is way below what I'm making currently. I think because of my age and experience and title, no companies willing to give me a chance.
4) EVEN those financial service positions are rare and competition is high.
I hold a Bachelor's in Accounting and a Master's in Tax. Why Masters? because the company paid for it and they encourage those that have passed their CPA exam to go for further education. I come to realize also that maybe a Masters in Tax is not the best thing for my resume if Tax is what i want to get out of. What else can I do besides anything financial though? With 5 years of tax experience I feel like I wasted my early career doing something I can't stand. Even as a manager, I'm not even that great at it; just average, really. I'm a hard worker by nature, but tax is just difficult in general and its hard to perform above average. I've made great relationships that are managing directors, senior managers and that probably helps my case by not being fired.
Here are my options that i've thought long and hard about and maybe someone can either agree/disagree:
1) transfer into corporate tax; work another 2-3 years in corporate tax -- learn that ASC 740 and FAS 109 provisions and hope those opportunities in corporate tax are more frequent than private equity/hedge fund.
2) keep applying for private corporate tax roles and pray someone out there gives me a chance, even by taking a pay cut.
3) Go backwards, give up being a tax manager, and try to get back into accounting/auditing so I can find an accounting that is more frequent.
4) Law school? MBA? Apply for a teaching degree?
4) go be a male stripper and pray to God P90X doesn't really take 90 days for results.
I secretly have anxiety issues because my parents were laid off when they were around 50 years old and it was tough for them to find a new job. I've communicated this with my wife and she's very encouraging "one step at a time" she says so I am extremely thankful. Consequently, one of my biggest fears is also being laid off -- does anyone else has this fear? A good friend of mine is a recruiter and he mentioned that Tax is a good industry solely because no one wants to do it. Its complicated, long hours, so there's job security. is this true?
I currently earn a salary of $135K but am willing to take a VERY SIGNIFICANT pay cut. I'm married, no children, and rent however NY/NJ is so expensive to raise a family and it makes me nervous about everything in life -- Work, marriage, kids, and the potential of being laid off.
Am i the only one that is going through this? Any suggestions please? I would love to hear people's thoughts and advice.
Go get a real estate license, your series 6, 63 and 65. Those are all really easy tests that give you a marketable skill.
Then - go sell something, or go land yourself a job in the insurance industry that will leverage your big 4 brand and title and some management experience.
At least with sales when you want to take some downtime, you take some downtime.
Yes I can sympathize...I wasted 6 years of my life from 22-28 at a Big 4 doing international tax work with no accounting or tax degree (made it to manager) in a specialty area and I am still bitter to this day about my lost 20's. The stress and hours of Big 4 sucks. Your first mistake was staying too long. I basically went back to get my MBA full time and I now do Corporate Finance in biotech....way better work-life balance. I was too scared to quit the job b/c I also feared unemployment so thank god I knew B school was in my future.
Tax does have its perks in that if you get into that particular niche you do have a job for life...but you gotta tolerate it. I disagree about lack mgr/sr manager jobs...I found F500'S really lack in talent there since all the best guys are trying in vain to make it to partner. Having said that, your niche doesn't lend itself to F500's except maybe financial service firms. And yes, I do think Tax as a profession works people hard whether in public or private.
Really depends what you want to do in life. Do you even want to be an accountant? Doing the cpa now with your current workload would be a challenge. If you are hell bent long term to get out of tax, then I would go back and do Corporate, get into private industry at and F500 and then maybe 4-5 years later transfer to something you think may be more interesting. The only way to shortcut that is the MBA which has its own risks.
I can sympathize, I have seen plenty of burned out accountants at the IRS and the few that had their own small firms would be lunatics screaming at their clients.
With all of those young people all of a sudden looking into accounting because they heard it's still lucrative, and their potential liberal arts degree is not, stop. What no one tells you (but you clearly did so eloquently) is that it's a soul sucking profession, that will kill your brain and burn out your eyes after looking at numbers for God only knows how many hours a day. It will get to the point you will not even want to file your own taxes or pay your own bills because you are tired of doing it for others. It kills any hopes you had of a social life, because you will spend more time than should be legal working.
I have the opposite problem of you when it comes to job searching. I have 20 years experience, but no CPA and I still have a little time before my degree is under my belt. Because of this I have to pass on jobs that are paying 6 figures and I'm qualified for experience wise, but I'm lacking the paperwork.
You could try for the IRS. Or like the other poster said, get your Real Estate license. Another option is possible financial planning or advising. We have one that works with my company. Clueless when it comes to our company, yet he's charging a high hourly rate.
I am on a similar career path to yours, except that I went the law school/LLM route after spending 3 years in tax at a Big 4 (where I also got my CPA). I'm now in-house at mid-size corporation (~$15b market cap) doing tax planning. I don't do any tax accounting or tax compliance, just planning and M&A. It's great work- interesting, complex issues with high value to the shareholders, and also a FANTASTIC work/life balance. I'm actually going to make my post short because I should have left for the day already since it's past 5 on a Friday.
Anyway, at my company most of the planning department consists of lawyers, but at many companies they will hire CPAs straight out of a Big 4 if they are qualified. Being FSO changes your target in-house gigs, but when I was interviewing for this position I also interviewed for a couple of hedge fund/PE/i-bank jobs where there was at least one non-lawyer tax guy. So they are out there for non-FSO and FSO people alike.
I just want to correct something about your post- you say that you are having trouble as a 30 year old manager. I'm not sure what that means. Managers are pretty marketable over here in NJ/NYC; at the Big 4, we lost the largest amount of people after they made manager because it is a marketable position. I'm 31 and I'm a senior manager at this particular company, but the title is pretty meaningless because I was also interviewing as a manager at some places and as a director at others. At the i-bank, I was interviewing for "associate", which is misleading because it paid about 3x more than what I make here.
Our salaries aren't fully comparable since I have a law degree, but $135k for a non-attorney manager sounds about right. I have a friend working at a company nearby who is a manager in tax (SALT) making $115k + $40k bonus, so that's right around the same. If you have nothing to do for the next four years, you could drop $150k on a part-time law degree to bump up the pay and the end-of-career prospects (i.e. head of tax etc), but you'd have to get into a more planning/advisory role and might need to spend some time selling your soul at a law firm to baptise your resume for the field.
Oh, and I would SERIOUSLY never worry about being laid off in tax. Yes, it happens, but you can go to any of the other Big 4 and have a job tomorrow, or the "global 6" or the other mid-size firms out there (i.e. McGladrey, Eisner, BDO, etc). So don't worry about not being able to pay the bills.
I can sympathize, I have seen plenty of burned out accountants at the IRS and the few that had their own small firms would be lunatics screaming at their clients.
With all of those young people all of a sudden looking into accounting because they heard it's still lucrative, and their potential liberal arts degree is not, stop. What no one tells you (but you clearly did so eloquently) is that it's a soul sucking profession, that will kill your brain and burn out your eyes after looking at numbers for God only knows how many hours a day. It will get to the point you will not even want to file your own taxes or pay your own bills because you are tired of doing it for others. It kills any hopes you had of a social life, because you will spend more time than should be legal working.
I have the opposite problem of you when it comes to job searching. I have 20 years experience, but no CPA and I still have a little time before my degree is under my belt. Because of this I have to pass on jobs that are paying 6 figures and I'm qualified for experience wise, but I'm lacking the paperwork.
You could try for the IRS. Or like the other poster said, get your Real Estate license. Another option is possible financial planning or advising. We have one that works with my company. Clueless when it comes to our company, yet he's charging a high hourly rate.
I have worked in tax for two years and now audit for five years, and I have yet to work with a single person who truly seems enthusiastic about what he is doing (not counting ass kissing when the boss is around). It's a tedious drudgery and I have been surrounded with loads of bitter, miserable coworkers. The pluses are the stability and decent (but not great) pay. That's about it.
I have worked in tax for two years and now audit for five years, and I have yet to work with a single person who truly seems enthusiastic about what he is doing (not counting ass kissing when the boss is around). It's a tedious drudgery and I have been surrounded with loads of bitter, miserable coworkers. The pluses are the stability and decent (but not great) pay. That's about it.
I got an accounting degree because I was good at it, was offered a full scholarship and didn't know what else to do. I knew for a fact I wanted nothing to do with tax. After working for several public companies, I am happy I never went the audit route either. I've worked for various companies of varying sizes. I've done GL, cash management, payroll, cost accounting and grant accounting at a University. I thought I hated accounting and only did it for the paycheck. Then I got my current job working in financial reporting, and I've discovered that I really enjoy it.
Big 4, tax and audit are not the only opportunities for accountants.
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