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Old 02-28-2016, 10:31 AM
 
4,757 posts, read 3,335,599 times
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A phony STEM shortage and the scandal of engineering visas -- how American jobs get outsourced - LA Times

I came across the above article and I would like some advice from people who are actually in the field. Though the title of the article says "STEM," I see that most of the article refers to the I.T. sector. I may consider I.T. in the future as something to study in college and would like to know from people in the field how true the article is.

The article mentions many big name companies but I'm curious to know if this is something that has a huge effect on landing a job in the sector. Does the much cheaper competition make it really hard to find a job? And I see big numbers in the article but I did not see anything regarding the percentage of I.T. workers total affected by these layoffs. For example, in a given city, if a few big name companies lay off 10,000 workers, then what would be that percentage of people who are affected by such a thing. Let's say there are around 100,000 I.T. workers in a given city, that would be 10% directly affected (I should say that this would affect everyone in one way or another), which is significant.

I know that what I ask is complicated (because it varies depending on location in the U.S., etc.) but I really have no idea how huge this issue really is or if it's overblown. I've also come across articles saying not to be discouraged and that there are plenty of jobs in the field. Even if you can't give numbers, if you have any stories that would help, I'd be grateful.

And from a political standpoint, does anything really believe politicians will change the law to stop most of this scam from occurring? Does anyone see the issue getting a lot worse instead?
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Old 02-28-2016, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,728,449 times
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What job do you want?what kind of college are you going to? The top tech companies still mostly recruit from a few schools, even with the talk of being more diverse. Companies also source from referrals mostly so you need to work on those angles.
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Old 02-28-2016, 10:50 AM
Itz
 
714 posts, read 2,193,162 times
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I work in IT and it really depends on what part of IT you're referring to. Every single company I've worked for has approximately 10% employees (IT) through a visa. In IT you can be a network specialist, security specialist, application specialist, service desk specialist, and i'm sure there are few more.

IT is very versatile, meaning you can work in any industry at any given time. The specialties in IT are pretty much standard, except on the application side.

Layoffs happen. In any given sector you can be assured that IT employees will be laid off at any given time. As an example: I worked in the Oil and Gas industry and was laid off last year. Why? There wasn't any business due to low gas prices. I was 1 of 3 IT people go at the time, which was part of a very large layoff. I've known IT people in the health sector who got laid off due to reorganization. Layoffs happen.

Keep in mind that IT costs a company money, so many times upper management may cut funds or positions without realizing the impact this could have.

The previous poster gave some good advice!!! Find out what part of IT you want to work in and if it's for you. Get referrals and start building your skills - college and on your own.
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Old 02-28-2016, 11:25 AM
 
1,188 posts, read 954,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerD View Post
I've also come across articles saying not to be discouraged and that there are plenty of jobs in the field.
There are plenty of jobs, but there's an enormous "tech gutter" that you can end up in if you aren't competitive enough to get hired as a real employee of a lucrative tech company like AMZN, GOOG, NFLX, MSFT, FB, etc.

If you do the following, then you can get hired at one of the lucrative tech companies:
  • Get a CS degree from a reputable program
  • Get a good GPA
  • Work 1 or 2 internships at one of the lucrative tech companies
  • Study the Crack the Coding Interview book and in general prepare to sell yourself as a young, bright, motivated individual who wants to do hands-on programming and knows how to throw around CS buzzwords like "Linked List" and "Hash Table" and knows how to throw around industry buzzwords/phrases like "Reinvent the wheel", "Quick and dirty solution", "Deploy", "Scale up", etc.
  • Apply at the lucrative companies during your senior year of college

It also helps if:
  • You're woman or racial minority
  • You're willing to work as a Program Manager

The tech gutter is when you don't have the qualifications necessary to get hired at one of those lucrative companies and so you take some 2nd-rate gig that then tarnishes your resume and burns you out. It's a self-perpetuating problem because the longer you don't work at a lucrative company, the less likely lucrative companies are to look at your resume in the future.

And yes, it's getting more competitive because there are over 1 billion people in India and almost all of them study IT-related fields and already have 10 years of experience when they come over here. Not just India, but also Russia and other Eastern European nations.
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Old 02-28-2016, 12:37 PM
 
Location: NYC
20,550 posts, read 17,537,829 times
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It's a scam because the IT management won't take a paycut but others have to so it's easier to just outsource workers from overseas. Most IT workers have stagnant wages but not for management. Their salaries are allowed to go up while others stagnant which tells you the real story right now.

Majority of firms that I visit as a consultant have an extensive outsourcing program for all work except management roles. Most of the IT management are so removed from the work these days, they have to hire consultants like myself to help guide them with setting expectations and overseeing the immigrant workers.

My recent IT security gig at a financial firm, I've uncovered large mismanagement of security practices. The reason it's been mismanaged because the people in charge that are Americans are not competant workers. They are simply friends and buddies of IT management workers and got the job over qualified people and now they needed contractors like myself to come in and assist them.

It's pretty common in most sites that I go to that either the US IT workers are incompetent or completely removed from doing the work.

It's both fun and disheartening experience when I learned the number of US workers that used to do the job and have left a legacy and the new non-American workers taking over are just doing repetitive work and have no clue nor care about how to ensure best practices are followed.

These are companies that are managing your money, mortgage, your sensitive healthcare records, credit card info, credit history, and the list goes on and on. As a Security Expert I'm pondering if holding cash is actually safer than keeping my money at these mismanaged institutions.
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Old 02-28-2016, 01:15 PM
 
4,699 posts, read 4,046,200 times
Reputation: 2483
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerD View Post
A phony STEM shortage and the scandal of engineering visas -- how American jobs get outsourced - LA Times

I came across the above article and I would like some advice from people who are actually in the field. Though the title of the article says "STEM," I see that most of the article refers to the I.T. sector. I may consider I.T. in the future as something to study in college and would like to know from people in the field how true the article is.
Its complete BS. H1B1 visas are not taking jobs away from graduates, they are just lowering salaries for experienced STEM workers. Remember there was 230K applications, only 85K got approved, and they can only apply once a year. That is too much hassle for a junior developer.

The reason they do it, is because sometimes they need someone with very specific experience, and Americans with that experience is very expensive. Hiring a new graduate won't work because it will take ages to train him, and then he might leave. Don't worry about H1B1 visas. The main reason some IT graduates can't get work, is because they don't have any internships/projects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KonaldDuth View Post
The tech gutter is when you don't have the qualifications necessary to get hired at one of those lucrative companies and so you take some 2nd-rate gig that then tarnishes your resume and burns you out. It's a self-perpetuating problem because the longer you don't work at a lucrative company, the less likely lucrative companies are to look at your resume in the future.
Those companies have an average age of below 30, even the ones who work there will eventually move to less lucrative companies.

Going to those big companies will give you a head start, but the ones who go to smaller companies will build themselves up too. Companies are always interested in people with a lot of skill, no matter what company they worked for.

The ones who really fail, are the people who are unable to get a relevant job after graduation. For instance they might get stuck in some dead end tech support job.

Last edited by Camlon; 02-28-2016 at 01:26 PM..
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Old 02-28-2016, 01:43 PM
 
1,430 posts, read 1,077,210 times
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H1B1 visas are definately taking jobs away from STEM graduates in the US.
Apple, Microsoft, Facepuke all lobby the US gov't hard to increase the
H1B1 visa counts. There are plenty of unemployed, qualified graduates with CS and Engineering degrees from the US that are purposely overlooked.

By the way, these three wealthy companies could afford to hire less qualified graduates if they wanted to, but the US government isn't asking them to. These three companies are part of the problem in the US.
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Old 02-28-2016, 01:50 PM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,482,595 times
Reputation: 15498
Quote:
It also helps if:
  • You're woman or racial minority
It also helps if you just seduce the owners...

WTF, since when is being a certain gender "advice", that isn't something you normally change?!?
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Old 02-28-2016, 02:49 PM
 
4,699 posts, read 4,046,200 times
Reputation: 2483
Quote:
Originally Posted by pappjohn View Post
H1B1 visas are definately taking jobs away from STEM graduates in the US.
Apple, Microsoft, Facepuke all lobby the US gov't hard to increase the
H1B1 visa counts. There are plenty of unemployed, qualified graduates with CS and Engineering degrees from the US that are purposely overlooked.
Those unemployed, qualified workers should accept any wage, so hiring a H1B1 workers won't be any cheaper. They are hired for senior jobs, and few graduates can do those jobs.

When a company says they want 2-3 years of experience in for instance .NET, they are actually asking for someone who knows .NET. You won't learn enough in university, but if you have learned more through internships or through projects then you will be considered.

The majority of IT graduates are getting jobs, because IT skills are in demand. However, they will only train the best graduates, the rest need to prove that they know the skills, they are going to use in the job.
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Old 02-28-2016, 03:10 PM
 
1,188 posts, read 954,394 times
Reputation: 1598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
Those unemployed, qualified workers should accept any wage, so hiring a H1B1 workers won't be any cheaper. They are hired for senior jobs, and few graduates can do those jobs.
Coincidentally, after bringing over all these guys who have 10+ years of experience, the entry-level programming jobs disappeared (some still exist in name, but the basic requirements are what would previously be considered mid- or senior-level).
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