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Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict
I think we're at that midpoint where it isn't exactly an employer's market anymore but we're not quite at an employee's market either.
I think employers that expect potential employees to come in begging for anything they can get are being unrealistic. An interview goes both ways. It's an opportunity for both the employer and the potential employee to determine whether they're good fits for each other.
Unemployment is low and we're now at the point where most employees are looking to upgrade from jobs they already have. To do that, they want to know whether the salary and benefits make it worthwhile to move from the job they already have. I know I apply to a lot of jobs that may be better than what I already have, but the employers post a salary range and are not totally upfront about what the benefits are, so I don't know when I apply whether it's going to be a good choice for me to make a move.
I hate when I go into a job interview and the interview is so scripted/HR psychobabble that I can't really get an idea of what the job is about.
On the other hand, the employer has the right to expect that the potential employee will not totally fabricate his or her skills on the resume. I know at my current office we end up interviewing people and then when it comes down to the reference check usually the first person or two selected end up falling through because of the fabrications on the job application. We have people come in who are just wildly underdressed, blatantly discuss their religious beliefs (in a government office), and do other things that are totally inappropriate and unacceptable. We had one or two people accept offers and just not show up, which is a big deal in government since the whole hiring process can take 6 months.
On the other hand, the employer has the right to expect that the potential employee will not totally fabricate his or her skills on the resume. I know at my current office we end up interviewing people and then when it comes down to the reference check usually the first person or two selected end up falling through because of the fabrications on the job application. We have people come in who are just wildly underdressed, blatantly discuss their religious beliefs (in a government office), and do other things that are totally inappropriate and unacceptable. We had one or two people accept offers and just not show up, which is a big deal in government since the whole hiring process can take 6 months.[/quote]
Our interview questions are written (by me) ahead of time. While there can be follow-up questions, this is to ensure fair and equal treatment of all candidates, to prevent questions that would intentionally eliminate or give favoritism to one or another. It may seem scripted, because of that, but it's HR policy.
At the end of every interview, the candidate is given the opportunity to ask questions. I will answer those about the position, duties, and work group, while the HR person will answer any about the timing of the selection process or benefits. We do provide all of the details of starting salary and benefits only when an offer is made, or if the person asks.
That's a reflection of how little obligation most employers feel toward their employees. Employers (collectively) reap what they (collectively) sow.
It is critical for employers to remember that their employees are running a business just as much as they are - the business within which they sell their time, effort and wherewithal - and to a reasonable employee the employee's business is more important than the employer's business. Employers get caught up in the mythos of the importance of their business, but unless they're running a hospital that provides free medical care to poor children, nothing a business needs to worry about will ever be as important as a parent worrying about raising a child, or worrying about securing a comfortable retirement with a spouse. Employees generally have to play a game, or even dupe themselves, projecting passion for the business, stroking the egos of employers. However, it should be clear that such behavior is nothing more than pandering to employers: If employers don't place ultimate value on the concerns of their employees' families, it is irrational for employees to place ultimate value on the concerns of the businesses for which they work.
You're assuming that all potential employees have dependent families.
Employment = roof over heads, food on table, clothing, etc. If someone were genuinely concerned about their family, shouldn't they concern themselves with landing a solid job to provide for aforementioned family?
When a person is in need of a job to support their family, should they seek out honest work, or sit home waiting for something to land in their lap? If someone is out of work and making a fraction on unemployment, are they really in a position to ask for benefits if the pay is many times more than they're receiving on unemployment?
If someone feels they have to pander, stroke egos, or project a passion for the business, perhaps they are applying to the wrong companies or they are in the wrong field.
How dare they ask about things that will affect them! How dare they assess the benefits of various companies! They should just grovel and suck up to you!
Interviewing is a 2-way street buddy!
Let me get this straight: during the interview your stating that they shouldn't tell me what skills they bring to the table until I offer right up the benefits up front and let them decide if they want me.
How about this: they had plenty of time to ask BEFORE they scheduled the appointment to interview. Instead of wasting both their time and mine by scheduling an interview, perform due diligence in advance.
I think we're at that midpoint where it isn't exactly an employer's market anymore but we're not quite at an employee's market either.
I think employers that expect potential employees to come in begging for anything they can get are being unrealistic. An interview goes both ways. It's an opportunity for both the employer and the potential employee to determine whether they're good fits for each other.
Unemployment is low and we're now at the point where most employees are looking to upgrade from jobs they already have. To do that, they want to know whether the salary and benefits make it worthwhile to move from the job they already have. I know I apply to a lot of jobs that may be better than what I already have, but the employers post a salary range and are not totally upfront about what the benefits are, so I don't know when I apply whether it's going to be a good choice for me to make a move.
I hate when I go into a job interview and the interview is so scripted/HR psychobabble that I can't really get an idea of what the job is about.
On the other hand, the employer has the right to expect that the potential employee will not totally fabricate his or her skills on the resume. I know at my current office we end up interviewing people and then when it comes down to the reference check usually the first person or two selected end up falling through because of the fabrications on the job application. We have people come in who are just wildly underdressed, blatantly discuss their religious beliefs (in a government office), and do other things that are totally inappropriate and unacceptable. We had one or two people accept offers and just not show up, which is a big deal in government since the whole hiring process can take 6 months.
As an employer, I want an employee who is honest, punctual, has the skills his/her position requires, a neat appearance and a clean license. It's not asking a lot. My crew have paid holidays, vacation, sick time, profit sharing, company vehicles, gas cards, company supplied uniforms. I pay well as I want to retain employees.
What I find (in my field) is that there are a lot of people out there who fancy themselves skilled mechanics (carpentry, not automotive) but haven't had the proper training nor the time in the field to be considered as such. Some tend to have a failed business behind them as a result of this, but want to tell you how to run your business, or worse, try to take over and steal work away from the company. Other applicants are content to work their 40 hour week and go home. They don't want to know from working an extra hour to finish a job. They don't understand that the set up and clean up for going back to the job for the one remaining hour of work is unproductive and costs money. Then there's the one employee who comes along and 'gets' it. He understands. He knows that if he gives a little extra, that he will be recognized and aptly rewarded at the end of the week and at the end of the year.
I'm not looking to make a killing on anyone's back. I'm looking to keep my business afloat and to keep my employees and myself working full time. It is a mutually beneficial endeavor.
Pre-employment testing and the "Oxford Capacity Analysis" , American Personality Analysis, Personnel Potential Analysis
The online applications and pre-employment personality tests are really getting out of hand. HR loves these because it gives them an objective way to pre-screen and reject candidates with little or no risk of a EEOC complaint.
On a related note, if you apply for any job and somebody even mentions the "Oxford Capacity Analysis", (or the American Personality Analysis, Personnel Potential Analysis Test or acronyms thereof) pick up all paper with your personal information on it, turn around, walk out the door, don't look back.
Prescreening with the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) is not quite a red flag, but should also be considered a sign something is off-kilter in the organization.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Thomas
I think employing a person is costing too much. And nope not cause of salaries. That's why companies are "allergic" to hiring.
Agreed. As a small business owner, I am forced to comply with regulations which can be burdensome and expensive. When I attempt to hire a new employee, instead of teling me how they meet or exceed my requirements, and what they have that can be beneficial to the company (and ultimately them via profit sharing) all they want to know are about hours, paid vacation, paid sick days, health insurance.
Disgusting, absolutely disgusting. I can't BELIEVE they would ask such questions!
Since the dawn of the industrial revolution in the early 1800's, corporations have been endlessly striving to reduce labor costs. Every dollar you save on labor goes directly to the bottom line. In case you haven't noticed, we've had a stock market run-up over the last 5 years that has been largely driven by increased earnings in industries that haven't seen particularly much sales growth. This has been accomplished by trimming deadwood in the huge layoffs at the Great Recession, investment in automation, insisting that their employees be more productive, and offshoring/outsourcing. Is increasing profits greed? Sure. The thing is, it's always been the way of corporations to seek to increase profits. I don't see that anything is particularly different now from 200 years ago in that basic motivation.
Neither. Economy is good but not great, government regulation and taxation is over the top, and employees/candidates have more of an entitlement attitude than ever.
I've worked for employers that had an entitlement attitude in that they believed that they were entitled to every waking minute of my life and that I had no rights as an employee. So, the sword cuts both ways.
I relocated here from northern NJ in December. Ask me again when it is 97 degrees in July, but so far I am really happy here. NJ is an angry state (there's a reason they have the governor they do) and I like the laid-back friendliness here. I am walking away with $77,000 in my pocket from selling my NJ home AFTER buying a NICER home here in Durham. My neighbors are friendly, I'm no more than 20 minutes from anything I might want to do, there are meetups galore. Now granted, I am middle-aged, so schools are not an issue for me. I am a bleeding heart liberal, so the current legislature is appalling to me, but there is a lot of progressivism in the Triangle to get involved in to change that. Regrets? Not a single one.
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Pre-employment testing and the "Oxford Capacity Analysis" , American Personality Analysis, Personnel Potential Analysis
