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Old 05-11-2016, 08:18 PM
 
34,053 posts, read 17,064,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
People have been reproducing long before there was such things as economies, jobs, nations, etc.

and should not when they are not fully prepared to cover all costs as a responsible parent would.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:57 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
6,927 posts, read 6,937,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
and should not when they are not fully prepared to cover all costs as a responsible parent would.
And since when do crystal balls get handed to people considering having children? People who were doing fine before the Great Recession suddenly found themselves on food stamps. I don't recall Goldman Sachs sending out a warning to everybody that it planned to stick with its illegal and greedy practices no matter what they caused to happen, so America go childless for the foreseeable future.

The politicians and CEO's told us NAFTA would be paradise for the American worker. Consumer products would be made cheaply by low paid overseas workers while American workers would be finally be "free" to take the much higher paying jobs like the ones at call centers. Well, they got the first one right, anyhow.

And it's not just manufacturing jobs that are low paid. Rural America has been hit hard by the low cost of carbon based energy and the resulting disappearance of good paying energy jobs in the alternative fuels sector. In my small town suddenly deserted by the energy companies, people are lucky to get any kind of work that pays even $8.00 or $9.00/hr. One woman I know who has 3 children (but lacks that crystal ball) is switching to a job in a town an hour away from here because she can earn $11.00/hr at the new job compared to the $8.50/hr at the old one. Of course, she's going to have to drive two extra hours/day, but it's still worth it to her.

Employers today have arranged it so that the government pays most of their employees' wages for them and best of all, the EMPLOYEE is the one everyone calls the parasite, not the employer who would have no employees at all if not for the way the government takes care of these "too big to fail" outfits every need and desire. Talk about creating a culture of dependency! God forbid that a corporation be held to honest actions like the rest of us, since there is no one regulating big business or doing any sort of oversight on their actions. Heaven forbid that a CEO go to the trouble of figuring out what makes a company profitable - not when he can just arrange for his company to pay absolutely zero taxes and its workers to be little better than slaves in some place in Bangladesh. The products are garbage, but you can buy them at any Walmart (which also has low paid workers provided by the US government to the wealthiest family in the US - the Waltons).

It's time the people of this country stop sleep walking thru life and pretending that government supported enterprise equals the free market. Government supported business and enterprise is called communism, folks. Wake-up!
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:50 AM
 
Location: USA
6,230 posts, read 6,923,893 times
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A lot of workers in America collect welfare to make ends meet. I don't think we will have a basic income system in our lifetime. But this "hybrid" system of work/welfare seems to be here to stay.

There are manufacturing jobs in America that pay well, however they require an advanced skillset. The days of making good money to do menial assembly straight outta high school have been over for decades now. There is no getting around the fact that today if you want to make a decent wage you need to have some kind of marketable skillset.
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Old 05-12-2016, 03:28 AM
 
34,053 posts, read 17,064,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
And since when do crystal balls get handed to people considering having children?



It is not required, as in many cases, it is lifelong low earners having kids depending on the gov't their whole lives.
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Old 05-12-2016, 07:24 AM
 
Location: NYC
20,550 posts, read 17,705,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsthetime View Post
The whole point of owning and operating a business is to make as much money as possible. It's a dog eat dog world. As long as I'm making my millions, I could care less if my own workers are unable to live on the wages I provide for them. Tell them to go to Uncle Sam and ask for help, or better yet, go back to school and learn a marketable skill.
As a business person I too could careless about workers but eventually everyone will get dragged down because the economy depends on everyone's participation not just the rich even though they got away with it for so long which cause the economy to bubble with the help of cheap money. It will still come back and hurt when the dust settles.
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,931,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
It is not required, as in many cases, it is lifelong low earners having kids depending on the gov't their whole lives.
And you would be wasting your time preaching to them. Having an illegal second child in China until fairly recently could mean jail, fines, worse. Millions risked it anyway. If your parents had had a real choice about reproducing or not, you would in all likelihood not be here. Unless you have the guts to lay out your program for sterilizing Americans en masse, your moralizing adds nothing to the discussion.
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Old 05-12-2016, 09:40 AM
 
Location: detroit mi
676 posts, read 725,848 times
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Manufacturing here in michigan is booming. If your skilled trade you are even more in demand as many of the skilled trade guys got out of it during the recession. I have been pretty much working 12 hr days for the last 3 or 4 years. 10 hrs a day is considered the normal hours in my trade and if your only working 8 hrs a day the company is real slow.

If people were smart they would come togeather and demand more money for the skills we have but that doesn't seen like it will happen anytime soon. Making anything less than 15/hr would be a strugle, im just glad ive made it past them days. Manufacturing will always be around and they will always need ppl for it, you can only automate so much.
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Old 05-12-2016, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,391 posts, read 30,931,772 times
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Most people in skilled trades are making more than their white collar counterparts.

That's clearly not counting the executives or the ones truly ripping off the country. However, your average "analyst" is typically making less money than a skilled electrician or pipefitter.


Unskilled employees really have no excuse for being an unskilled laborer, especially in USA. There's no excuse for anyone with a brain and an IQ over 80 to make minimum wage. Sorry, make all the excuses in the world, race, 1%ers, CEOs... but at the end of the day it is just laziness and a refusal to sacrifice and put in the effort to learn.
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Old 05-12-2016, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,391 posts, read 30,931,772 times
Reputation: 16643
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo8414 View Post
Manufacturing here in michigan is booming. If your skilled trade you are even more in demand as many of the skilled trade guys got out of it during the recession. I have been pretty much working 12 hr days for the last 3 or 4 years. 10 hrs a day is considered the normal hours in my trade and if your only working 8 hrs a day the company is real slow.

If people were smart they would come togeather and demand more money for the skills we have but that doesn't seen like it will happen anytime soon. Making anything less than 15/hr would be a strugle, im just glad ive made it past them days. Manufacturing will always be around and they will always need ppl for it, you can only automate so much.

I agree, I'm in Michigan and see it. The people who say manufacturing is dead are the people who want to be paid 18 dollars an hour to tape boxes shut on an assembly line.


I rarely see skilled tradesman making less than 22 an hour. Good ones are easily at 26-32 an hour... and that's a nice standard of living in Michigan.
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Old 05-12-2016, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,931,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09 View Post
I agree, I'm in Michigan and see it. The people who say manufacturing is dead are the people who want to be paid 18 dollars an hour to tape boxes shut on an assembly line.


I rarely see skilled tradesman making less than 22 an hour. Good ones are easily at 26-32 an hour... and that's a nice standard of living in Michigan.
This is a very populous country. If you vacuum up all the available jobs. Every single one in the country, you get a number in the single digit millions. That's all employment sectors. If you try to calculate the number of Americans that need a job... ... you are easily into the double digit millions. This is the problem. Individual Americans only see their individual circumstance. You're employed, good on ya. But don't, don't, don't, go there and say "ah... anybody can do it. The jobs are there..." No they are not! For every skilled tradesman making $22/hr. there are 50 that would LOVE to be him/her. Just because you don't know them personally does not negate the FACT of their existence.
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