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Right or wrong usually doesn't come into play when it comes to employment. It's usually legal or illegal. Liable or not liable.
Give me an example of an employer being wrong? Employers can do sucky things, but are they "wrong?" Is it a matter of perspective?
Do you really believe that? I've been around long enough and seen enough to know that the ideal answer is not always the right one. Managers can and will do things that make no sense, are ultimately self destructive, yet get so much emotional pleasure out of doing them they go ahead anyway. You could as well say Hitler wasn't wrong -- it was just a matter of perspective.
Do you really believe that? I've been around long enough and seen enough to know that the ideal answer is not always the right one. Managers can and will do things that make no sense, are ultimately self destructive, yet get so much emotional pleasure out of doing them they go ahead anyway. You could as well say Hitler wasn't wrong -- it was just a matter of perspective.
You worded it better than I did, maybe a better way for me to put it would be employers do things that are wrong from a moral or decency perspective. I've seen that plenty, and even seen some illegal things done, but folks were too afraid to complain, as it was during a recession and jobs were hard to come by. Obviously few employers would be so foolish as to do illegal crappy things, but a legal crappy thing is still bad. Charlygal makes a good point in regards to right or wrong, but again, a sucky thing-while legal, still hurts that employee.
I guess an example that comes to mind, is one company I was at, we hired a new sales person, and she was excellent at her job. Problem was, her boss was upset because the new lady was very attractive, and the boss lady no longer was the office "beauty". Childish and very unprofessional yes, but she was let go, and it was 100% legal. I've seen good workers let go in order for the manager's BFF to get hired on. Salaried position abuse as well. All legal. I'm sure these fall into the "wrong" category, but it's all perspective.
I guess my point was more that some here always justify and defend any action by the employer, like they are all morally upstanding entities.
Also mass lay offs are starting to become the norm. I cant hardly open the news and not hear about lay offs somewhere.
The late thing has been addressed ad nausium and in alot of cases is an employer issue. Alot of people dont do well with mornings so do you want performance issues or do you just want to shift hours around? If I had a nickle for every time someone said they hate mornings I woudl be rich so why is it that when it comes to work start times everyone is so draconian about it. I think its mostly due to the fact that old people are running the show and they quickly forget how they hatted waking up at the a$$ crack of dawn themselves when they were 18 to mid 30's. The whole early morning thing is really a disfunctional part of our society. Unless there is some specific profound reason to be up at the a$$ crack of dawn its just employer abuse and exploitation, if no one was willing to work at 7 or 8 am then you would see buisness models being forced to shift.
We're a nation of laws. Employment is no different.
We are a nation of crony capitalism and the crony capitalists get to lobby to control what laws get writen, that is functionally equivalent to fascism or communism. That is not the will of the people, if it were up to the will of the people at will employment would have been gone long ago and draconian working hours would be made flexable by law.
No one really wants all this crap except the upper eschelon to keep their slaves in order. It is already falling apart and things are going to start getting really ugly. I hope the future rioters and shooters have just a little forsight to bring the uglyness right to the front doors of these smug upper eschelon. Either that or the people some how regain control of the govt and start passing stiffling laws that force buisness hands while putting in place extreme tarrifs and using the military to enforce intellectual property protection under national secuity laws. Get rid of insurance requirements and frivolus law suits.
Thats because we keep hiring politicians that allow it and if you notice at will employment issues have rarely been brought up in the presidentail debates or ads. Its like no one really cares that they can be canned any day for no or little reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaveWI
You worded it better than I did, maybe a better way for me to put it would be employers do things that are wrong from a moral or decency perspective. I've seen that plenty, and even seen some illegal things done, but folks were too afraid to complain, as it was during a recession and jobs were hard to come by. Obviously few employers would be so foolish as to do illegal crappy things, but a legal crappy thing is still bad. Charlygal makes a good point in regards to right or wrong, but again, a sucky thing-while legal, still hurts that employee.
I guess an example that comes to mind, is one company I was at, we hired a new sales person, and she was excellent at her job. Problem was, her boss was upset because the new lady was very attractive, and the boss lady no longer was the office "beauty". Childish and very unprofessional yes, but she was let go, and it was 100% legal. I've seen good workers let go in order for the manager's BFF to get hired on. Salaried position abuse as well. All legal. I'm sure these fall into the "wrong" category, but it's all perspective.
I guess my point was more that some here always justify and defend any action by the employer, like they are all morally upstanding entities.
One thing I have noticed on this board is how everything is so "doom and gloom". All companies are terrible, there is no hope, no one can earn a decent living any more, all managers are inept and didn't earn their position ... just on & on about the horrible US employment climate. It sure makes me very glad to work for the company that I do! Surely I can't be the only one with a good job that challenges and engages me, working for a company that values my contribution?
Employers will bully only those who will tolerate being pushed around and bullied. It's up to the worker to respond accordingly. Know the law, and record conversations on your cell phone if you must. But my favored response is to seek employment elsewhere.
Agreed
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