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Old 09-15-2016, 04:50 PM
 
1,115 posts, read 2,486,169 times
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I must have got lucky with salary roles in my early career. I preferred salary. The expectation set for me originally was that salary = results oriented. Time did not matter. That meant some weeks we worked 60 hours but other weeks we maybe only had to work 30 hours and we got paid the same amount each pay period. We were also allowed to do things like taking longer lunches, go to doctor appointments, running errands, exercising at the gym, and not worry about losing hours or pay. As long as our work was getting done, the actual time or hours you spent working did not matter. This was great.

However, my experience as an FTE at my last three companies has been a nightmare, I'm surprised some of the things they do are legal. Namely, I've been expected to work overtime for free, but I've also been docked if I put in less than 40 hours, with the company either taking my PTO or not paying me for those hours. I've never heard of such a thing. Tracking time as a salary exempt employee? You bet. Being required to use my PTO when I go to a doctor appointment or leave the office for more than 30 minutes? You bet. Being expected to sit in my chair for 40 hours when I get my work done in 32 hours that week? Yep.

Have employers always been this abusive to FTE salary employees? Did I just get really lucky in my first few FTE jobs? What happened to salary = results and not "how long have I been in the chair"? I just can't believe I'm told I can't get paid for hours over 40 in a week, but at the same time they will dock my pay one hour if I happened to work 39 hours that week...
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Old 09-15-2016, 04:53 PM
 
Location: TN/NC
34,821 posts, read 30,892,534 times
Reputation: 47111
My experience as well. All it is is a way to avoid paying overtime
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Old 09-15-2016, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Concord, CA
7,125 posts, read 9,197,293 times
Reputation: 25337
Employers are under the gun to deliver rising revenues and profits each quarter. As a result, they put pressure on everybody to perform. There are no longer any easy jobs where you can just coast. You can thank Wall Street for that.

No, it was not always this way. Back in the 70s I worked at a huge electronics company that insisted that we work no more than 40 hours per week. They also let us use 10% of the time to do G jobs and they even provided free components from lab stock.

Glad I'm retired now.
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Old 09-15-2016, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles CA
1,637 posts, read 1,338,049 times
Reputation: 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
My experience as well. All it is is a way to avoid paying overtime
This is why Hourly is better
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Old 09-15-2016, 05:54 PM
 
196 posts, read 385,637 times
Reputation: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_grimace View Post
I must have got lucky with salary roles in my early career. I preferred salary. The expectation set for me originally was that salary = results oriented. Time did not matter. That meant some weeks we worked 60 hours but other weeks we maybe only had to work 30 hours and we got paid the same amount each pay period. We were also allowed to do things like taking longer lunches, go to doctor appointments, running errands, exercising at the gym, and not worry about losing hours or pay. As long as our work was getting done, the actual time or hours you spent working did not matter. This was great.

However, my experience as an FTE at my last three companies has been a nightmare, I'm surprised some of the things they do are legal. Namely, I've been expected to work overtime for free, but I've also been docked if I put in less than 40 hours, with the company either taking my PTO or not paying me for those hours. I've never heard of such a thing. Tracking time as a salary exempt employee? You bet. Being required to use my PTO when I go to a doctor appointment or leave the office for more than 30 minutes? You bet. Being expected to sit in my chair for 40 hours when I get my work done in 32 hours that week? Yep.

Have employers always been this abusive to FTE salary employees? Did I just get really lucky in my first few FTE jobs? What happened to salary = results and not "how long have I been in the chair"? I just can't believe I'm told I can't get paid for hours over 40 in a week, but at the same time they will dock my pay one hour if I happened to work 39 hours that week...
Don't know if everyone is like that but when I worked for a City department it was definitely like that. I most worked FTE but had a little time during the end as an administrator. I was still FTE but it wasn't about me - it was that i started dealing with salaried City workers and it was night and day.

As an FTE every second was counted, breaks and lunches were scheduled. You were severely penalized for being the slightest amount of time late - and sometimes early. Even if your job was project based, you were chained up like a slave.

By contrast, the salaried workers "decided" when they wanted to take breaks. they took lunches as long as they deemed necessary - sometimes not even coming back to work. not only were the hourly rules lax, they came and went as they pleased - I don't know how many times we waited upwards of an hour for someone to show up to a meeting. It was like candyland to them.

So, you experiencing both sides is a good thing - your like Moses now! Gather your people and get away from Pharoah! But in all seriousness, the experience might make you a better, more compassionate administrator one day...
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Old 09-15-2016, 09:02 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,105 posts, read 80,190,829 times
Reputation: 56942
No, in fact our official policy for ex mot people is up to 4 hours off in a day with full pay, not having to use PTO. In fact I'll be in 3 hours late tomorrow, leave at the usual time and get paid for all day. We seem to follow the definition of exempt, that is paying for the body of work done, not for the hours worked.
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Old 09-15-2016, 09:53 PM
 
Location: TN/NC
34,821 posts, read 30,892,534 times
Reputation: 47111
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmoStars View Post
This is why Hourly is better
Generally agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
No, in fact our official policy for ex mot people is up to 4 hours off in a day with full pay, not having to use PTO. In fact I'll be in 3 hours late tomorrow, leave at the usual time and get paid for all day. We seem to follow the definition of exempt, that is paying for the body of work done, not for the hours worked.
You're lucky. This is all based on the policies of each employer, and most don't seem to be nearly as generous. I've been a salaried IT staff member supporting either standard biz hours clients or BUs at three employers within the last two years.

Employer 1 allowed staff to take off during the day but deduct PTO at an equivalent ratio. Come in an hour late, lose an hour of PTO, and it was an occurrence. No option to "make it up." No flexible hours without giving notice ahead of time, which may or may not be granted. Basically a 40 hour job - we did get comp time if we had to work extra hours after 40 on the weekends.

Employer 2 didn't allow taking off without notice. Any schedule adjustment request, even if it was just an hour late for a doctor's appointment, required you to take PTO, in a minimum of half day increments. With only 13 days of PTO per year, it's hard to stomach wasting a half day PTO on a doctor apt. that may take just thirty minutes past normal start time. No flexibility in hours or comp time for after hours work.

Current employer is more flexible, and a much larger organization by 10x the employees of the next closest of the two. If someone needs an extra 30-60 minutes for lunch to run an errand, not a big deal as long as the manager is told and there is nothing scheduled with our end users or vendors, and it doesn't become a regular thing. I have a little flexibility in my start time. No comp time, but better benes than employer #2, and on-call is much less busy.

All of them mandate 40 hours in the office regardless if the work is "done" or not.

Last edited by Serious Conversation; 09-15-2016 at 10:07 PM..
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Old 09-15-2016, 10:49 PM
 
2,762 posts, read 3,165,904 times
Reputation: 5402
A lot has changed.

It use to be more about getting your work done, completing projects etc.... and everything else you did was ignored. Some weeks you put in tons of hours, some weeks you didn't.

Once all that started to change, I have several friends who left industry and went to work for the feds.
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Old 09-16-2016, 04:07 AM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 4,214,908 times
Reputation: 8515
At some companies, if you're salaried, you can choose your own hours. But if you choose less than 60 hours per week, you're likely to get laid off. If you do high tech and/or complicated creative work, your boss is likely to have no reliable way to measure your productivity. So they measure it by watching your work habits. Arrive early, leave late, work weekends, etc. Companies like that hire a lot of new employees, because they need to replace the people they lay off. They also have you facing your desk and/or computer, such that you can't see them sneaking up behind you. In addition to watching your hours, they also watch what you seem to be doing. They want to make sure, not only that you're working 60 hours per week, but that you're not spending time playing games or anything.
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Old 09-16-2016, 05:05 AM
 
Location: Live in NY, work in CT
11,244 posts, read 18,728,301 times
Reputation: 5068
Salaried is such a joke that needs to be reformed, but of course people keep voting against their own interests because of fear of some mysterious, mostly made up "other"

Salaried is just too vague and too open to abuse. I had that same issue with PTO and looked it up. Unfortunately a company can still dock PTO for "partial" days off and completely at their discretion. However, if you use up your PTO and still need a "partial" day off, they are not allowed to dock your pay if you are salaried. But you know what happens if you start doing that, right?

And truth be told, "salaried" as the law is writted does not take care of comparing the person who might need partial time off a few times a year for a dr. appt., etc. vs. someone who does it say once or twice every week. The law says both have to be paid equally and the only recourse is a company finding a "performance" excuse to fire the latter example.
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