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Having worked at 2 union places ( 19 years and 10 years) and at two non union places ( 2 years and 4 years), I always was amazed how workers thought that being non-union they "negotiated my own wage"
Yes, many management people do, however many workers don't have a clue what that means.
My last non-union place ( printing plant with 600 employees) every worker got called in to their dept manager's office twice a year for a review. They were praised for their performance ( or chastised for lack luster performance) then handed an already typed up slip of paper that stated what their new increase ( if any )would be .
The workers then stated they were so much better off " negotiating my own wage " than having a union do it for them.
When your new pay rate is typed up before your review, it certainly is not " negotiating "!
Having worked as an 1099 employee for over 25 yrs and even now being self employed, I have negotiated my wage most of my life. I like the fact that if I want to bust my arse, I can make very good money for what I produce. Where the worker next to me who just wants to put in the minimum time has a pay check to reflect just that. In theory the union way sounds good, but when humans get involved, we see workers being over payed for services rendered.
Aaah, yes, the I'd rather negotiate my own raise" folks.
True unions aren't perfect because they're run by people. But because of them we also see employers not being able to just do what they want with employees in some cases. When I see some of the first offers our company makes I thank heaven I have a union. They'd have us working 10 days straight, only 7 hours between shifts, UNLIMITED forced transfers. Let alone no raises (while conceding the company is making money) selling the product WE produce. (As it is now, our days off AND shift can change every week.)
It just may be coincidence but the people at my job, who won't join the union are also very self-absorbed people.
One says the union doesn't get him anything. Then I tell him, well it gets you your raise every year and your working conditions. But this guy is a self-centered pr!c# so I'd expect him to not want to pay dues, yet get the benefits.
Having worked as an 1099 employee for over 25 yrs and even now being self employed, I have negotiated my wage most of my life. I like the fact that if I want to bust my arse, I can make very good money for what I produce. Where the worker next to me who just wants to put in the minimum time has a pay check to reflect just that. In theory the union way sounds good, but when humans get involved, we see workers being over payed for services rendered.
You aren't an employee. If you are paid per job and the employer lists that on a 1099 form that makes you an agent or an independent contractor.
Unions get kicked around a lot because of some corruption and the fact that they have a duty to represent both good and bad employees. Wages aside, unions are more responsible than probably any other entity for a safe workplace and employee benefits. Its the ability of the union to call for a work stoppage or strike that forces employers to run a safe shop. I don't think most of us want coal mines that explode or trains that constantly derail and kill workers. Nor, do most of us want impoverished employees without even health insurance.
You can bad mouth unions, but most of this wouldn't exist without them.
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Originally Posted by selhars
Aaah, yes, the I'd rather negotiate my own raise" folks.
True unions aren't perfect because they're run by people. But because of them we also see employers not being able to just do what they want with employees in some cases. When I see some of the first offers our company makes I thank heaven I have a union. They'd have us working 10 days straight, only 7 hours between shifts, UNLIMITED forced transfers. Let alone no raises (while conceding the company is making money) selling the product WE produce. (As it is now, our days off AND shift can change every week.)
It just may be coincidence but the people at my job, who won't join the union are also very self-absorbed people.
One says the union doesn't get him anything. Then I tell him, well it gets you your raise every year and your working conditions. But this guy is a self-centered pr!c# so I'd expect him to not want to pay dues, yet get the benefits.
There are always free-riders everywhere. I don't think people ought to be forced to join a union if they don't want too. However, I've always supported the idea of the "agency shop law". The employee doesn't have to join a union, but he has to pay something to the union in recognition of the fact that its the collective bargaining done by the union that raises every employee's wages and benefits. Plus, helps guarantee a decent and safe working place.
Your ability to negotiate your wage is directly derived from the extent to which you offer unique value to your employer. If few other people have your skill set, and your skill set generates revenue for your employer, you have great ability to negotiate your wage. You can be sure that without a union contract, LeBron James would get paid much much more than he does now under his union maximum contract with his NBA employer.
In contrast, if the skills you offer can be easily performed by other workers, you have little leverage to "negotiate" your wage. For these employees, unions add a significant factor in terms of value. One employee may be easy to replace. Replacing an entire workforce unit at one time is much harder. With a union, the employer is faced with the choice of making the employees happy or replacing them as an entire unit. So, unions have considerably more leverage to negotiate wages than do most employees.
Many employees who don't like unions fail to see the forrest through the trees. They fail to recognize the value a union can offer them in light of their non-unique skill set. Employers owe their investors a duty of paying as little as the employer can to produce the most profitable product it can. As long as an employer can find someone who can do your job just as well for less, the employer should do that. Again, a union can limit the pool of workers available to compete for you job. That increases your value and forces an employer to pay higher wages. Of course, when unions use too much of their leverage, they can force employers to pay wages that are too high. Remember what happened to GM, Ford, and Chrysler?
Employees who don't like unions have plenty of reasons for their dislike. For example, unions require their members to pay dues, and this is where most employees who have a problem with unions have their biggest issues. The employees don't like how their money gets spent by the union. It's certainly true that some unions do not spend their members' dues wisely. And the relationship a union member has with his or her union is just an added complication to the relationships that have to be managed to earn a living. So some folks just don't want the hassle. If they can find another employer who has a non-union shop and will pay them more, that's where the anti-union employees should go. Employers can keep unions out most effectively by making sure that they are competitive -- in terms of what they offer their employees -- with employers who already have unions. But all this is just a circle back to the first point: you can negotiate your wage based on your unique skills. If they are sufficiently unique (and revenue generating), employers will compete for you, and you will be able to negotiate your wage. If not and you want to be on your own...good luck being able to "negotiate your wage."
Many employees who don't like unions fail to see the forrest through the trees. They fail to recognize the value a union can offer them in light of their non-unique skill set.
My field is one that has no shortage of people who want to get into.
Could a recent college grad to my job? Technically, yes. But could they do my job with the judgement of one who has 30 years experience? Absolutely not. So would the product quality suffer? Yes.
My employer would still hire someone to replace me at half my wage.
They SAY they care about quality. But I can tell from other moves that have been made that they really don't. So I have no illusions that they'd replace me in a heartbeat, and let quality deteriorate.
I don't get your point. Most annual raises are calculated by management based on budget. Yes, that's true. However, the employee always has the option to ask for more. Because there is no union contract specifically limiting the increase, there is always the possibility of getting a bit more.
In this situation, the non-union route is technically better as it at least presents an opportunity to ask for more without any constraints. Whether the employee will get more is another matter. Some do and some don't.
True unions aren't perfect because they're run by people. But because of them we also see employers not being able to just do what they want with employees in some cases. When I see some of the first offers our company makes I thank heaven I have a union. They'd have us working 10 days straight, only 7 hours between shifts, UNLIMITED forced transfers. Let alone no raises (while conceding the company is making money) selling the product WE produce. (As it is now, our days off AND shift can change every week.)
Good post. I work a clerical position in the dietary department of a hospital while I finish my degree. I am also one of our department's union delegates (we are a branch of the SEIU) and as such I am directly involved with the collective bargaining and disciplinary processes and have seen first hand how even good bosses can try to run roughshed over their employees.
For instance, our department employs a substantial number of disabled/handicap people who are unable to drive and thus must take public transportation. I was just recently involved in a situation where our director attempted to give a written reprimand to one of those handicapped employees who left at the end of their scheduled shift despite a supervisor attempting to make them stay late to finish work. Neither the director nor the supervisor seemed to care that this would have left this person without a way home (our bus service ends fairly early) or that our collective bargaining agreement specifically prohibits our employer from forcing employees to stay past the end of their scheduled shift.
Or for another example; we had some things get broken and not cleaned up in our kitchen. Since there were no witnesses or any way to verify who the guilty party was, our executive chef decided it would be appropriate to give written reprimands to everyone who was on shift that night, which was just less than 20 people.
I hope people think of things like that before they begin bashing unions.
Quote:
It just may be coincidence but the people at my job, who won't join the union are also very self-absorbed people.
One says the union doesn't get him anything. Then I tell him, well it gets you your raise every year and your working conditions. But this guy is a self-centered pr!c# so I'd expect him to not want to pay dues, yet get the benefits.
In my personal experience, most of the people who don't want to join are confused about the difference between right to work versus employment at will laws and thus think the union cannot really help them.
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