union positions (applying, percentage, interview, owner)
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You don't need to join one then. But I don't think unions will hold you back if you are ambitious. My supervisor went from having no supervisory experience to supervising a dozen people with 20-30 years experience each. How did she manage that huge leap? Confidence and ambition, and all that in a union workplace.
Well I spoke with an AFSCME employee and had an encouraging conversation. There may be a need for a steward in my area so I may get involved that way. I'm puzzled by their statement that a steward must represent someone whether they want to or not (whether its a contract violation or not), when my previous union was reluctant to represent me even in the case of black-and-white contract violations. In AFSCME, the employee-steward files grievances, while in my previous union the stewards (who were not employees of the union itself) acted mostly as advice-givers and informal "rep" in disciplinary meetings and such. A business agent who was an employee only of the union itself (and not the employer) was the one who filed grievances.
This is a pretty huge difference, IMO, and may partially explain why they were so worthless. When you don't work for the employer and only work for the union itself, its no skin off your teeth if people's grievances go ungrieved. You still have your cushy job working for the union, and you aren't affected by the contract violations at all.
When you don't work for the employer and only work for the union itself, its no skin off your teeth if people's grievances go ungrieved. You still have your cushy job working for the union, and you aren't affected by the contract violations at all.
Am I onto something here?
I find it quite the opposite. If your Union it worth salt, they have nothing to lose by representing you, and follow thru with the grievance process....unless they feel it has no merit, then they may recommend taking a different route. Now, as far as Arbitration, with AFSCME, they pay 1/2 of the cost, and the local pays the other 1/2, so both have a vested interest, and need to have a strong enough case to move forward.....AFSCME, and the locals Executive Board must both agree whether to go to Arbitration or not. What you may find, is that it is membership that is afraid to stand up and be exposed to the fall out from the employer.....yes, retribution is illegal, but we all know there are ways an employer can make your job a living hell, and still have clean hands at the end of the day.
What you may find, is that it is membership that is afraid to stand up and be exposed to the fall out from the employer.....yes, retribution is illegal, but we all know there are ways an employer can make your job a living hell, and still have clean hands at the end of the day.
I experienced the above this week. I am in a union environment that is basically only union in paper, because the union is small and weak. Very different from my past union, which wasn't all-powerful but managed to remain effective. I have sensed that my union stewards were puppets for management, but I didn't have any proof. I finally asked them to sit in on a meeting with my managers, and the senior steward stepped down shortly after. I naively thought it was because he realized how immoral the managers have been behaving toward me, but it's actually because he's in the running for a competitive program and doesn't want to "rock the boat". Of course he didn't disclose this directly. I asked him why he stepped down and he said he wanted a "clear head" while going through the process. This person has been a senior steward for MONTHS, and the process for the new position started a long time ago. It takes ONE meeting, where all he had to do was OBSERVE, to get him to step down. What makes him more pathetic is the steward below him usually does all the work. Nothing I hate more than a coward. I feel bad for all the people paying the exorbitant union dues for nothing.
It takes ONE meeting, where all he had to do was OBSERVE, to get him to step down.
It's pretty intimidating being in front of Administration.....been there many times, but being the position held, you need to stand tall for membership, and gain respect from upper management.....lie down, and they will run over you every time and laugh. Also, when you go before them, do your research and make sure you have a strong enough case. Think hard before you decide to step up, it's a thankless job without pay (at least I'm not paid), and may require burning PTO to attend meetings.
I guess there are spineless people in both paid and nonpaid rep positions. I guess I can't know for sure that my business agent was weak because of being paid; I also had an unpaid rep who was in my termination review meeting who allowed the administrator to cut him off and prevented him from presenting the most important parts of my case. He didn't even work for that employer and he allowed himself to get steamrolled. Nevertheless he was generally one of the most helpful people I found in the union so I don't blame him for the result.
It seems like this union business is a potential minefield with either type of structure. In one the reps may be worried about there own job, and in the other it really doesnt affect their job and you can't force them to grieve anything. I'm glad to hear there are some good unions out there.
Anyway there's not much worry about me becoming "one of those reps" in my current position, because I don't value this position very much. It has no promotion potential, I'm making squat, and I don't plan to hang around more than 6-12 months, so the real opportunity for me here is to learn more about and get more involved with the union and see if that leads to anything worthwhile.
Its a shame US legislators are too gutless to protect (hard-working, competent) employees instead of (often incompetent, unethical) employers, and make most of this union business unnecessary.
OP, what type of protection do you think you need?
You should start another thread rather than divert this one. I started this thread to discuss pros and cons of working/volunteering in union rep and related positions. If you want to discuss why, when or whether people think union protections are needed you are free to start a new discussion. I'm sure you can get a reply from me there.
I had a good talk with the interim Local President (our regular President apparently quit over illegal work practices, so fun is on the way). I'll be attending a training session in a couple weeks, after which I guess I'll be a steward if I want to. Not much happening in my immediate area so I think things will be very quiet, but it will all be an interesting learning experience.
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But I don't think unions will hold you back if you are ambitious. My supervisor went from having no supervisory experience to supervising a dozen people with 20-30 years experience each. How did she manage that huge leap? Confidence and ambition, and all that in a union workplace.
, it's a thankless job without pay (at least I'm not paid), and may require burning PTO to attend meetings.
