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As I said I work in the private sector a lot with the feds so I see both sides daily. Apathy and poor work ethic in the government is rampant, not with the guys developing wind tunnels but clearly at the lower grades. These attitudes and performance simply would not be tollerated in the public sector. Sure a Federal worker CAN get fired but it's clearly much more difficult and much less common.
I have worked only in the private sector I can assure you poor work ethic is rampant there as well. When I worked for a fortune 500 the number of people doing less then an hour of work a day was astounding. It varied of course and their were lots of hardworking people but I would say 10-15% of the staff in my office at the time could have been eliminated and no one would have noticed.
I think if the general public knew the total compensation of federal workers, they would be appalled.
In this day, there is no reason why public sector union contracts could not be subject to public approval of said contracts.
Automation, a hiring freeze and new comp rules for new hires, when we allow it again would be very helpful in reducing the expense of a bloated federal government bureaucracy.
I have no direct experience with state or local government union contracts, so will not address them, and will assume you are talking about the Federal Government.
The federal employees do not have a typical 'union contract' like those in the private sector. Pay is governed and set by CONGRESS, and is never part of what a union can negotiate.
The only negotiations are on what are called the "terms and conditions of employment", and tend to cover rules about work hours, absence and leave; punishments for breaking the rules; and help to workers in representing them with management if there is a disagreement. Federal Unions cannot declare a strike. In general, the public would be bored of looking at any federal union contract, as they really don't cover much that is of interest to the public.
Automation is an ongoing goal and project of many, if not most, government offices. It is not a 'new idea'.
Hiring freezes are already endemic, and the FERS system, which came into effect many years ago, has managed to make a whole lot of people look askance at federal employment.
As for being 'bloated' - next time you go into your local SSA office, ask when they were last able to hire a new person to replace losses from their rapidly aging workforce- betcha it has been years. It has indeed been years that most Federal offices have been struggling to deal with a workload when they have only been allowed to hire 1 for 3 losses - and that only when there hasn't been a general hiring freeze.
And they are getting a good laugh at how someone who has done business with gov for 30 years doesn't know how gov contracting works. I don't doubt that buyers don't know anything about print or any other specific business for that matter. Their job is to know and follow the FAR. And yes that is a cloudy, ambiguous, piece of something cobbled together by various special interests in Congress over decades. There's probably a line in there somewhere about requiring some number of contracts to go to one handed printers using the Guttenberg press because there's an old guy in some Congressional district that does.
What is often confused as people problems is actually the law they must follow. Of course you're not going to believe me; it's much more fun to bash the workers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry
I sell printing and design. I often deal with mid grade level workers who are the print buyers. In some instances their incompetence is startling. I would share emails from some of the bad ones to another buddy in the printing industry and we would have a good laugh at how a person who has bought printing for 30 years can not have a clue how the process works.
Many get hot jobs to print and they sit on their desk for days, we learn this from the end users, then they call us to bail them out and produce a job that should take a week in 2 days. A fire drill that could have been avoided had the print buyer simply done his job. If our customer service rep (the person who receives and plans the job) had sat on the order for 2 days, causing people to work overtime to make the time up, they would have been fired. But the government print buyers maintain their jobs for 30 years.
I've seen this for decades and I have many many more examples. My former President went to work as a Director and the Government Printing Office. The stories he tells regarding the difference between private sector and GPO in urgency and overall competence is amazing. A job handled by GPO will take a month, in the private sector it can be a week. There is a reason GPO finally relinquished and allowed agencies to purchase their own smaller projects through the private sector, they were sick and tired of the poor service by GPO and saw how much better working directly with commercial printing companies was.
I often deal with mid grade level workers who are the print buyers. In some instances their incompetence is startling. ...
I can recite nearly identical anecdotes, except that in my case, the bottleneck isn't civil-service employees, but contractors employed on-site at the government facility. This is because most menial functions, be it purchasing of equipment, compliance with safety-regulations, building maintenance, IT and the like, have been contracted-out. These functions are no longer performed by government clerks, but are sold to bids in private industry. They're done by Booz-Allen, Sierra-Lobo, Jacobs Sverdrup, General Dynamics and the like. And quite often, the very same personnel will perform that function for decades. Contracts get recompeted regularly, and a new contracting-firm takes over. They bring in a new program manager (nominal boss), but the working-level personnel are rehired by the new contracting-firm.
One reason for inefficiency is the profit-motive. If Booz-Allen can spread the job across 5 people, that with maximum celerity could have been done by 2, well, that's more manhours to be charged. And if the objective is scrupulous compliance to regulations, as opposed to quality work or rapidly done work, then indeed the extra manhours are easily justified.
The upshot is that we won't solve government-inefficiency by firing shiftless government employees. We have to alter the very culture by which government operates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff
... I don't doubt that buyers don't know anything about print or any other specific business for that matter. Their job is to know and follow the FAR. And yes that is a cloudy, ambiguous, piece of something cobbled together by various special interests in Congress over decades. ...
Exactly.
The Federal Acquisitions Regulations are not written to save the taxpayer money, to maximum quality of the product/service bought by the government, or even to best stimulate the economy. They're written to preclude appearance of impropriety, to systematize for the sake of being systematic, to serve various arcane and abstract policy-goals, and yes, to give special-interests particular advantage.
It's a total myth that the private sector doesn't tolerate poor performance. Both sectors have good and bad. But it's so much more fun to spread the myth than hear the truth.
That's so true! I was in Kohl's a few weeks ago and asked a clerk if they had a particular item in my grandson's size, she barely spoke, instead she lifted her finger and pointed at a computer kiosk and said "there". I asked her how that would help me she said "look it up" and walked away. I went to CS and asked for a manager, to whom I related the incident and was told "clerks are not expected to know what our inventory is, so we have a convenient computer kiosk for customers". I left the store, appalled by the clerk's behavior and the manager's response. On the other hand, when I had to call Social Security with a complex question that the agent could not answer, she took my number and called me back within a few hours with the information I was seeking.
And they are getting a good laugh at how someone who has done business with gov for 30 years doesn't know how gov contracting works. I don't doubt that buyers don't know anything about print or any other specific business for that matter. Their job is to know and follow the FAR. And yes that is a cloudy, ambiguous, piece of something cobbled together by various special interests in Congress over decades. There's probably a line in there somewhere about requiring some number of contracts to go to one handed printers using the Guttenberg press because there's an old guy in some Congressional district that does.
What is often confused as people problems is actually the law they must follow. Of course you're not going to believe me; it's much more fun to bash the workers.
You asked for an elaboration, I gave you my accounts. Just because my answer does not fit your argument is no reason to insult me by claiming that I don't know how government contracting works.
The issues I illustrated have absolutely nothing to do with government contracts. In every case a contract was in place for each print project in the form of a Simplified Purchase Agreement, administered by GPO. Did you not read my post? A buyer sitting on a job for days, then turning to us to bail him out has NOTHING to do with contract compliance. Not sure where you got that it does.
A print buyer of 30 years who still does not understand that an approved proof needs to be returned before the printer has the authorization to proceed has nothing to do with the contract that is in place, certainly not on my end at least. She is the one unaware that this proof agreement is a binding contract and it must be returned. As I said it is a basic understanding about how the process works and there no excuse for a government print buyer of 30 years not to understand this. The fact that she was not aware again points to competency, it has absolutely nothing to do with Congress, contracts or anything else. A private sector President going to work with the government, then telling me in great detail about the vast difference in work ethic and overall competency between the private sector and the Government Printing Office, again has nothing to do with contract compliance.
Last edited by DaveinMtAiry; 11-23-2016 at 12:02 PM..
If these new Federal guidelines about removing incompetent workers had been applied to K-12 teachers, I can remember about a dozen of mine who would have been let go. But teachers' unions resist any type of merit evaluation, so that they will be supported by those who know the unions are the only reason they're still employed.
Good. I'm sick of these overpaid government employees getting paid millions while I'm scraping by on $15.50 an hour at my factory job. My taxes are too high. Probably the reason why the economy is in the situation it's in. Taxes are killing the economy and driving people into poverty.
Good. I'm sick of these overpaid government employees getting paid millions while I'm scraping by on $15.50 an hour at my factory job. My taxes are too high. Probably the reason why the economy is in the situation it's in. Taxes are killing the economy and driving people into poverty.
If you are only earning $15.50 an hour, it might be time to consider returning to school or learning a trade. But please tell me who are these government employees earning millions? If they exist then you should be applying for those jobs.
federal workers, on average, earn more than american workers and have much better health insurance, retirement, and other benefits. Many people wonder why a person working FOR US has better benefits and compensation than us.
I've worked in government - the stereotypes and anecdotes are true - there is no reason they should ever make more than average.
I saw the same stereotypes when I was in govt, especially at the lowest levels. Ten lazy, uneducated people doing office drudgery that one person with any intelligence and drive at all could have done better, or which, in many cases, didn't need to be done at all.
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