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Old 01-10-2017, 09:51 AM
 
2,411 posts, read 1,973,733 times
Reputation: 5786

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Book Lover 21 View Post
Ever hear what it's like in Japan?


Layoffs Taboo, Japan Workers Are Sent to the Boredom Room - The New York Times


Shusaku Tani is employed at the Sony plant here, but he doesn’t really work.
For more than two years, he has come to a small room, taken a seat and then passed the time reading newspapers, browsing the Web and poring over engineering textbooks from his college days. He files a report on his activities at the end of each day.
Sony, Mr. Tani’s employer of 32 years, consigned him to this room because they can’t get rid of him. Sony had eliminated his position at the Sony Sendai Technology Center, which in better times produced magnetic tapes for videos and cassettes. But Mr. Tani, 51, refused to take an early retirement offer from Sony in late 2010 — his prerogative under Japanese labor law.
So there he sits in what is called the “chasing-out room.” He spends his days there, with about 40 other holdouts.
“I won’t leave,” Mr. Tani said. “Companies aren’t supposed to act this way. It’s inhumane.”



The standoff between workers and management at the Sendai factory underscores an intensifying battle over hiring and firing practices in Japan, where lifetime employment has long been the norm and where large-scale layoffs remain a social taboo, at least at Japan’s largest corporations.


I think lifetime employment is unworkable, after all Sony is moving it's gaming division to the US. But, I think rather than laying off employees, if they are good productive employees, why not give them 30 days and some training for another role? Of course, this wouldn't work for smaller companies, but large corps.

Can't recall where or when I read this (a few years ago perhaps), but I believe this already happens in the US in at least some places with teachers who cannot be laid off and who won't resign. I think it was in New York where they spent years 'reporting to work' to sit in a room doing essentially nothing. The costs for everyone are exorbitant but some are willing to play the system for literally years apparently, especially if they are close to retirement age I gather.


I don't think what you are talking about is a good idea at all, OP - and as others have alluded to, it is not well defined at all - how long does the double pay go on for? And does it apply for any reason at all, even if an employee is obviously guilty of terrible things - perhaps stealing from the employer or harassing others or just refusing to do any work perhaps? I understand though that sometimes the power that an employer can wield over an employee can also be misused, and being able to just dismiss employees for no valid reason can often be misused.


On the other hand, I also think 'at will' employment where neither an employee or the employer has to give any notice or reason for termination - which means that the employee in particular has no rights - isn't the answer either. I still like the old standard - give 2 weeks notice (at least) if you are leaving and the employer has to do the same, along with providing at least some plausible reason why they are letting you go. The only exception to that should be gross misconduct of some kind. That still seems to me to be the civilized way to conduct business.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:32 AM
 
694 posts, read 1,202,733 times
Reputation: 830
There is an excellent book by a British author, Keith Waterhouse called "Office Life" that describes exactly the situation. A protagonist starts working for a company and he cannot figure out what the company does. There is a shuffle of paperwork, and it all looks legit. Finally, he figures out that the company was created by the government since it was cheaper to keep people on payroll than pay them unemployment benefits. The book is very funny, full of laughable characters and typical absurd office situations, it was written in the 70's, but is totally applicable to the everyday office life, especially, in large corporations.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:21 PM
 
129 posts, read 124,070 times
Reputation: 132
Sounds like you might be developing a screenplay for a flick about a dystopian post-neoliberal employment world LOL. Make sure those who contributed to this thread get a cut of the box office. Or at the very least, invitations to the premiere!
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:23 PM
 
Location: San Diego
5,733 posts, read 4,688,017 times
Reputation: 12791
What a stupid idea.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:24 PM
 
3,670 posts, read 7,160,987 times
Reputation: 4269
If I were the employer in that situation, I would do my best to make the worst employees WANT to quit.

But sometimes it does cost more to lay people off...people don't always see the big picture when they make decisions
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:33 PM
 
52 posts, read 39,334 times
Reputation: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Book Lover 21 View Post
Ever hear what it's like in Japan?


Layoffs Taboo, Japan Workers Are Sent to the Boredom Room - The New York Times


Shusaku Tani is employed at the Sony plant here, but he doesn’t really work.
For more than two years, he has come to a small room, taken a seat and then passed the time reading newspapers, browsing the Web and poring over engineering textbooks from his college days. He files a report on his activities at the end of each day.
Sony, Mr. Tani’s employer of 32 years, consigned him to this room because they can’t get rid of him. Sony had eliminated his position at the Sony Sendai Technology Center, which in better times produced magnetic tapes for videos and cassettes. But Mr. Tani, 51, refused to take an early retirement offer from Sony in late 2010 — his prerogative under Japanese labor law.
So there he sits in what is called the “chasing-out room.” He spends his days there, with about 40 other holdouts.
“I won’t leave,” Mr. Tani said. “Companies aren’t supposed to act this way. It’s inhumane.”



The standoff between workers and management at the Sendai factory underscores an intensifying battle over hiring and firing practices in Japan, where lifetime employment has long been the norm and where large-scale layoffs remain a social taboo, at least at Japan’s largest corporations.


I think lifetime employment is unworkable, after all Sony is moving it's gaming division to the US. But, I think rather than laying off employees, if they are good productive employees, why not give them 30 days and some training for another role? Of course, this wouldn't work for smaller companies, but large corps.
Thanks for this. Very interesting. Shows how changing values / society affects people at the micro-level.

Maybe Sony needs to sweeten the early retirement offer better? Mr. Tani can take it and then volunteer, do something positive for himself and society? Very fascinating!!
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Yakima yes, an apartment!
8,340 posts, read 6,779,917 times
Reputation: 15130
[quote=Book Lover 21;46777381


I think lifetime employment is unworkable, after all Sony is moving it's gaming division to the US. But, I think rather than laying off employees, if they are good productive employees, why not give them 30 days and some training for another role? Of course, this wouldn't work for smaller companies, but large corps.[/QUOTE]

But this shows Japan is acting like the USA and not employing older workers. The guy must be 50 by now. In the USA he "Might" still be employed and useful. Obviously not in Japan.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:35 PM
 
4,833 posts, read 5,729,849 times
Reputation: 5908
Never hire someone you can't hire. In this scenario all employees would be contract/temp and would be on monthly and/or yearly contracts. That would work out well for the company as they don't have to deal with benefits or PTO.

In other words, be careful what you wish for.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:56 PM
 
3,393 posts, read 4,009,690 times
Reputation: 9310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgustedman View Post
But this shows Japan is acting like the USA and not employing older workers. The guy must be 50 by now. In the USA he "Might" still be employed and useful. Obviously not in Japan.
I thought about this story recently when two co-workers were laid off. They both had over 25 years with the company and very good work history. They were both well-respected productive employees. This particular department needed to downsize. Because literally ALL of the employees in that department are top-notch, they had to let these two people go. (There is a lot of speculation that they were the highest-paid workers in the dept ).


About a month later, another department hired two new people off the street. After all the grief, stress and depression that went along with these layoffs, the company hires two "unknowns". How does this make any sense? One of the laid off associates is caring for an ailing father, so health care is also an issue.


If the company had one of these Japanese-style boredom rooms, these two could have easily transitioned into the other department that needed warm bodies. It would also be cheaper for the company long term (these two both got over 50 weeks severance pay).
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Louisiana
806 posts, read 876,366 times
Reputation: 1248
Sometimes you read something so profoundly stupid that you are at a total loss for words ...
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