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Many people will call you difficult or demanding and reject you! It happened to me earlier in my career!
It may work - I have successfully negotiated for more pay. Or they may reject you - this happened to me as well!
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
You may not have negotiated properly or effectively. It's a skill.
And if they reject what you want to be paid, then it's not the job for you. They don't want to pay you what you are seeking. And it happens to males, too. It's not a "rejection." It's a job that doesn't pay enough.
People have to stop taking it personally and understand ... it's just business.
Wow, talk about condescending! There are plenty of studies showing that women who try to negotiate harder for more money pay a penalty for it. It's not that they are doing it wrong, it's because they are held to a different standard than men.
People need to stop taking it personally and understand.... sexism is real.
This doesn't appear to be true, it makes no difference. I live in a region where most professionals wait to have kids and many women don't want them at all. There are still pay gaps. You can't blame kids because few people have taken off for that reason. It is a convenient scapegoat.
Ahh ok I see what you are saying Jade, yes on top of the kid thing there is an issue--
But I did want to point out that raising kids is in no way "convenient" and try working a floor job where workers are routinely assaulted (guards not allowed to lay hands on) and you are on your feet 12 hours a day while 6 or 7 or even 8 months pregnant.
Not to mention to stigma for your husband in staying home to raise the kids- its still there, and until the playing field evened out for men to stay home for paid baby bonding time (still a rarity for most, right) you will still have women being the ones who take the time off for kids--
and like the other poster said- you do- you lose time and advantage in the work force...
its more than a convenient excuse.
(No women do not have it easier.)
Last edited by CAjerseychick; 03-16-2017 at 07:17 PM..
Reason: more info, clarification
Wow, talk about condescending! There are plenty of studies showing that women who try to negotiate harder for more money pay a penalty for it. It's not that they are doing it wrong, it's because they are held to a different standard than men.
People need to stop taking it personally and understand.... sexism is real.
Yep, in engineering the women are less likely to do significant continuing education (as in graduate level/400 level mathematics or engineering), get their professional licenses etc.
On the management track they wont go get their MBA or their PMP etc.
Because these activities take up significant out of work time to accomplish and if you have small kids at home studying for a PMP or a PE is not usually a priority.
Half of my female engineer friends have masters degrees. I am actually a slacker in my circle not having a masters. My friend finished her PMP last year. Another friend is wrapping up an IT management masters while working full time in IT. My reality reflects what is fairly typical for professional women in big metros. My friends with kids had them in their 30s (mostly). Those of us without them now (I am late 30s) didn't want them. Some still plan to but at this point we are pretty experienced in the workplace without employment gaps.
More and more women are not interested in kids and don't take breaks from working. Still get paid less. Apparently these expectations no longer match reality but still persist.
Ahh ok I see what you are saying Jade, yes on top of the kid thing there is an issue--
But I did want to point out that raising kids is in no way "convenient" and try working a floor job where workers are routinely assaulted (guards not allowed to lay hands on) and you are on your feet 12 hours a day while 6 or 7 or even 8 months pregnant.
Not to mention to stigma for your husband in staying home to raise the kids- its still there, and until the playing field evened out for men to stay home for paid baby bonding time (still a rarity for most, right) you will still have women being the ones who take the time off for kids--
and like the other poster said- you do- you lose time and advantage in the work force...
its more than a convenient excuse.
(No women do not have it easier.)
Taking time off for child care is a reasonable reason for a pay gap and shifting work/life priorities. But the problem is it doesn't negate pre-children pay gaps. I think some people actually think women should get paid less because they think there is no way a woman who may want or have kids can be motivated by professional success. Or of course it is assumed a husband will pick up the slack.
On the up note I am seeing changes. Some companies are offering paternity leave (mine does, it is the same as the maternity leave). One of my male colleagues loves that his girlfriend makes more money than he does. He'd happily take on a fun job and let her be the breadwinner when they get married. He doesn't care about that gender stereotype.
Half of my female engineer friends have masters degrees. I am actually a slacker in my circle not having a masters. My friend finished her PMP last year. Another friend is wrapping up an IT management masters while working full time in IT. My reality reflects what is fairly typical for professional women in big metros. My friends with kids had them in their 30s (mostly). Those of us without them now (I am late 30s) didn't want them. Some still plan to but at this point we are pretty experienced in the workplace without employment gaps.
More and more women are not interested in kids and don't take breaks from working. Still get paid less. Apparently these expectations no longer match reality but still persist.
Masters degrees in the disapline? Or a MBA? IF they have a masters in EE, ME, ChE, mathmatics or physics then my hat is off to them. They need to get out of private sector and go work for darpa or los alamos, screw the board room go work on something awesome like anti gravity or cloaking, anti matter, one of those observatorys in Chili, do a stint in mcmurdo station antarctica, I could go on and on.
MBA's are respectible for managment track but from what I have heard they are not particuarly hard to get compared to a disapline (or math/physics) masters.
If I had to do it again I would have went for my masters right away but I was tired of being broke. I still may finish my masters in mathmatics and applied physics and try to work at Eglin AFB.
IF they are not making it in private sector I would go fed govt.
Ahh ok I see what you are saying Jade, yes on top of the kid thing there is an issue--
But I did want to point out that raising kids is in no way "convenient" and try working a floor job where workers are routinely assaulted (guards not allowed to lay hands on) and you are on your feet 12 hours a day while 6 or 7 or even 8 months pregnant.
Not to mention to stigma for your husband in staying home to raise the kids- its still there, and until the playing field evened out for men to stay home for paid baby bonding time (still a rarity for most, right) you will still have women being the ones who take the time off for kids--
and like the other poster said- you do- you lose time and advantage in the work force...
its more than a convenient excuse.
(No women do not have it easier.)
I am "man" enough not to have any type of stigma if I were a stay at home dad...are you kidding me??? id love it..
and I would be proud to be married to a successful woman bringing home the bacon...
id have dinner waiting for her when she got home,,,,rub her feet and give her a back rub...
I would support her as the bread winner a wife a mother, and not nag or drag her down
with a me-first attitude... I would appreciate what we had and not whine about things..
id be very attentive to the kids because I could...
women get all screwed up when working and having kids.......they think they have to be superwoman doing it all..... and that's wrong,,,the man can easily help out with cleaning and cooking
these gender roles should have diminished thinking the woman has to do it all..
however...the lady also cant be a dictator thinking she is the only one that can do things "right"
Masters degrees in the disapline? Or a MBA? IF they have a masters in EE, ME, ChE, mathmatics or physics then my hat is off to them. They need to get out of private sector and go work for darpa or los alamos, screw the board room go work on something awesome like anti gravity or cloaking, anti matter, one of those observatorys in Chili, do a stint in mcmurdo station antarctica, I could go on and on.
MBA's are respectible for managment track but from what I have heard they are not particuarly hard to get compared to a disapline (or math/physics) masters.
If I had to do it again I would have went for my masters right away but I was tired of being broke. I still may finish my masters in mathmatics and applied physics and try to work at Eglin AFB.
IF they are not making it in private sector I would go fed govt.
I only know a couple of MBAs, most of my friends with masters have it in engineering or CS - which isn't a place in the public sector. A couple also have it other disciplines. So they are working in the private sector in tech.
I do have another friend who does cool stuff at NASA.
My aunt has a masters in math, she teaches and has been for a long time. There weren't many opportunities for her in the prime working age.
Exactly. Negotiate negotiate negotiate until they say they will give the job to the next candidate.
Most women take the first offer.
If you DON'T negotiate you become years behind, salary wise, until you are earning 20%-30% less than your counterparts. Has nothing to do with male/female. Has to do with the salary you AGREE TO. Have some self worth and learn to negotiate.
Women are penalized for negotiating. FWIW, I don't take the first offer either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140
It's somewhat like buying a car. Many women, including my wife, wish there would just be a price tag on it like any item at a store, you pay it and leave. Many men, like me, love the challenge of negotiation and may spend 3 hours buying a car and end up walking away if we don't get the right deal. There are exceptions, however, I have seen and worked with some women that are very strong negotiators.
Please. I love buying a car. I had to coach DH on how to work with me because having a man with me while negotiating totally changed the dynamic. I'm the one who orchestrated it all. He'd have paid sticker.
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