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Old 07-26-2017, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
11,583 posts, read 6,676,906 times
Reputation: 14786

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGompers View Post
I would ask if its rotational. If its not I would decline as even in IT I don't think this set up is an industry standard. Rotational coverage is however an industry standard.

If you are desperate for a job or if this is your first entry level job take it and stay for 12 months then look for something better.


I have worked as a salaried manager and worked many more hours than what I was paid for, but I was a salaried manager. My husband is also salaried, but not a manger and works as a Mechanical Engineer. There are many times that he gets calls outside of his normal working hours. Sometimes he has to troubleshoot something that takes five minutes and other times it's hours. He does not get anything beyond his salary for working these extra hours; however, he is paid very well (well over 6 figures) so it doesn't bother him.


Bottom line, if you don't like the idea of working for free for the salary they are offering than don't take the job and keep looking!
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Out there somewhere...a traveling man.
44,553 posts, read 61,271,608 times
Reputation: 125557
If an employee is not eligible for overtime pay, he is considered exempt. Exempt employees are on salary, but not all salaried employees are exempt. Some salaried employees, such as nurses or police officers, can also be considered nonexempt employees and are eligible for overtime pay.

2016 New rules for salaried employees...
If a worker makes less than $47,476, they are eligible for extra compensation if they work more than 40 hours a week, regardless of their job title or description.
Read more: https://www.fastcompany.com/3060032/...ill-affect-you
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,743 posts, read 25,939,939 times
Reputation: 33847
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedonaverde View Post
So I'm pursuing a job opportunity with a company who's made a verbal offer and who I'm supposed to visit next week to meet their team, see their facilities and hopefully talk to the hiring manager about any questions I may still have. If all goes well, I expect a written offer by the end of next week.

The job is a standard Mon-Fri 40 hour/week full time opportunity for a fixed yearly salary. The issue that causes me concern is that the hiring manager said that (if I accept the offer), I'd be provided with a company laptop and cell phone, be expected to answer calls and do work outside my regular shifts. If it takes "5 minutes" (as the hiring manager stated) to fix, I'm expected to do it for free. If the issue is complex and warrants me having to return to their office to fix it and it takes let's say 1-2 hours to fix, I can request to be paid overtime which is calculated as a 3 hour minimum (they gave me an hourly rate). The manager said he often gets calls when he's away from the office and handles urgencies on his own time. That's all fine and dandy but I bet he earns at least $60-80K/year if it's not more, while the job I'm looking at is in the $30-35K/yr range. If I worked IT, I'd understand the need to respond to distress calls about a network connection being down but I work in another field. It's still time critical at times but I don't agree with the expectation of being available outside of work hours, so "on call" without being paid for it. When I'm away from work, I expect not to be bothered.

I talked to my dad about it and he thinks I should suck it up and just accept it. I read what may have been a Forbes article about 10 ways employers cheat their employees and this is one of them - cheating them out of paying overtime by expecting you to be "on call" and expecting you to fix things for free.

When I go meet the company managers next week, what can I can ask about this on call arrangement? If it's on rotation, if it's 24/7, if it's to provide coverage on my days off, on the hours I'm away from the office after working a FT shift that same day, and so forth?
My husband worked under similar conditions until the company nearly had a mutiny on their hands by employees who discovered that they could basically never leave the house, and there were no 5 minutes calls, he was a senior network engineer and most of the issues took a fair amount of time to fix, even remotely. After the company got enough complaints about employees basically having to stay home for two weeks every month they made several changes.

They included upper management in the rotation so that no one was on standby for more than one week a month. They gave the impacted employees a bonus of 8 hours pay for the one week they were on standby to be paid even if they received no calls. If they were called in they were paid mileage and a minimum of 4 hours pay. (He was on salary too, not hourly) For a 30k job, I wouldn't do it but I don't know what your financial situation is. My husband was paid about 5 times that so he stuck it out until he retired. I certainly wouldn't do it if you were expected to be on standby 24/7 365 that would really suck.
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Florida
153 posts, read 120,378 times
Reputation: 481
From my understanding, the exempt (salaried) threshold is now in the 40K or more range.

If you're hourly, and making 30K would indicate that, you should be paid for every minute you work, regardless of your set schedule. Something isn't adding up here with this prospective offer, and I'd say skip it.
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Old 07-26-2017, 10:52 PM
 
359 posts, read 300,451 times
Reputation: 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton View Post
Isn't being on-call pretty standard with that type of IT work? Apparently your expectations aren't reasonable for the type of IT position you have applied for. .
Who said the job I applied to is in IT? Feel free to review my OP for clarity.
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Old 07-26-2017, 11:07 PM
 
359 posts, read 300,451 times
Reputation: 298
Thanks for spelling out possible scenarios and questions to ask, Cubicle Dweller.

For others who were wondering the job does indeed pay $30-35k/yr which is on the bottom end of my target range as I heard a classmate was offered 45k at a more prestigious company even though he has less education than I do. I'm receiving lots of pressure from my dad to accept this offer - I did have better opportunities before this job lead that were closer to $40-45k but they didn't work out. I do have another interview at a second company next week - if you're interested , see the job search board under work and employment for my thread there.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:05 AM
 
10,599 posts, read 17,806,230 times
Reputation: 17349
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedonaverde View Post
Actually for the overtime (OT), the request has to be approved by the hiring manager and he gets to judge whether the on call OT of 3 hours minimum was warranted or not. He did say that usually he's called and is able to fix issues from home in 5 minutes and since it's such a short period of time, the company sees no reason to pay for that. I'd be expected to adopt the same expectations as a salaried employee. However I see this on call situation as potential trouble so I'd rather clarify the terms and conditions before signing a contract.
THIS is total BS.

Because it's not the five minutes that are the issue. It's the hours and hours you're expected to be "WORKING" by being accessible by phone or computer.

Based on this lame explanation, I'd decline the job.

Furthermore, IMO, they should be assigning you specific on-call hours not just acting like it's perfectly normal to get calls constantly when you're off. For 35K?

No.

And I say that as a corporate manager who worked around the clock for years.

It's ridiculous. What is the procedure? You're going to a wedding out of town and you're supposed to uh....miss your plane if you get a call or ....step out of a wedding and have the phone ring during the ceremony or ....not go in the pool...not go to a movie.....etc etc etc

Play it out in your head and since they couldn't/didn't bother TELL YOU IN ADVANCE exactly HOW it would work, it tells me it's a bad situation.

If I really wanted someone I'd have gone to alot more trouble explaining how it works.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:08 AM
 
Location: Kaliforneea
2,518 posts, read 2,037,619 times
Reputation: 5258
If you think you can get better pay by continuing to put out applications/interviews, by all means do that. Only you know how bad you gotta start getting a paycheck like yesterday, or not.

oncall for free/convenience... might be pretty std and the implication of available overtime might be smoke and vapors, or the company could honor it with cold hard cash, or weasel out with some 'comp time' equivalent . I know that if I was guaranteed OT, EVERY time I was called I would somehow, mysterously, have to drive in and get 3 hrs OT.

If there is a weekly rotation - like among a pool of 13 employees - that's only 4 times a year. But if the rotation is among a pool of 4 - that's one week per month until you burnout and quit.

I'm no expert in labor laws... but if the company has an Expectation that you carry the phone 24/7 and expect a 5 min response time, well then.. the IRS might have something to say about that. You would have to be paid a 'shift differential' to sit around an wait for the phone to ring. But if oncall phone calls are infrequent and unlikely, you might not notice. Ask your interviewer for specific examples of how often people are called in the off-hours.

There's a fine line between asking honest questions, advocating for your own needs, and spitting in your potential employer's face.

This is your learning experience.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:16 AM
 
35,095 posts, read 51,001,042 times
Reputation: 62661
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedonaverde View Post
So I'm pursuing a job opportunity with a company who's made a verbal offer and who I'm supposed to visit next week to meet their team, see their facilities and hopefully talk to the hiring manager about any questions I may still have. If all goes well, I expect a written offer by the end of next week.

The job is a standard Mon-Fri 40 hour/week full time opportunity for a fixed yearly salary. The issue that causes me concern is that the hiring manager said that (if I accept the offer), I'd be provided with a company laptop and cell phone, be expected to answer calls and do work outside my regular shifts. If it takes "5 minutes" (as the hiring manager stated) to fix, I'm expected to do it for free. If the issue is complex and warrants me having to return to their office to fix it and it takes let's say 1-2 hours to fix, I can request to be paid overtime which is calculated as a 3 hour minimum (they gave me an hourly rate). The manager said he often gets calls when he's away from the office and handles urgencies on his own time. That's all fine and dandy but I bet he earns at least $60-80K/year if it's not more, while the job I'm looking at is in the $30-35K/yr range. If I worked IT, I'd understand the need to respond to distress calls about a network connection being down but I work in another field. It's still time critical at times but I don't agree with the expectation of being available outside of work hours, so "on call" without being paid for it. When I'm away from work, I expect not to be bothered.

I talked to my dad about it and he thinks I should suck it up and just accept it. I read what may have been a Forbes article about 10 ways employers cheat their employees and this is one of them - cheating them out of paying overtime by expecting you to be "on call" and expecting you to fix things for free.

When I go meet the company managers next week, what can I can ask about this on call arrangement? If it's on rotation, if it's 24/7, if it's to provide coverage on my days off, on the hours I'm away from the office after working a FT shift that same day, and so forth?
You already do not agree with their policy so why waste your time and theirs with a visit?
Gracefully decline now and find a position better suited for your needs.
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:10 AM
 
95 posts, read 73,081 times
Reputation: 96
There are many factors to take into consideration here.

Sometimes making less $$ is a gift because you ACTUALLY MAKE MORE $$. Be Creative I would not be tied down to the computer the majority of the days of any week though. JMHO. I respond to about 2 emails a week from my boss that requires about 15 min worth of work on my own time. Yet somehow I always see some extra $ on my checks somehow that mostly cover it

Working for less money might mean more money -and- LESS stress.

I make what equates to about $13.20 per hr for about 45.5 hrs per wk via my employers. -BUT- that is not my real hourly wage. See math below

I work 3 days per week

I am paid to sleep for 7 hrs per night

25% of my work hours are overtime because I generally accept one extra 18 hr shift per month.
BUT... I also make side money WHILE on the job.

Set Work Schedule:
Wednesday 3pm-Midnight
Thurs- Midnight-9am (go home for about 5 hrs or shop the cheap Grocery Outlet in this town saving $ on groceries etc..)
Thurs 3pm-Midnight
Fri Midnight-9:30am

About once a month, I take on another 18 hr shift for a co-worker which puts me into overtime.

I shop thrift stores while on the clock One Client loves shopping thrift stores. I Sell my wares purchased while on the clock on EBAY and a little on Amazon making an extra $69 per week on average. Actually about $100 but we'll be conservative. I do postage at home on my own time then send it off...but do most of the work (the shopping, taking photos and listing) while on the clock late at night.
I am also paid $12.50 gas money for one trip to work, per wk
$69 Online sales+ $12.50 gas $$=$81.50 per week.
$81.50 per week % 45.5 hrs per wk=$1.79 extra per hr.

So my hourly wage equates to $13.20 per hr+ $1.79 per hr=$14.99 per hour.

But just this year there is a KILLER BONUS. Because our Company has the best California dental plan. and we both had major work done, we've saved a combined about $4000 just this year. Divide that by 52 weeks in a year and that adds .76 cents per hour. $14.99+ .76=$15.75 per hour otherwise spent on dental care.

I LOVE Sleeping on the job. Temp controlled room with central heat and air. A shower. Desk. Internet. Comfy bed. Nice but small refrigerator. Comes in handy to store groceries I bought in this town during the 6 hr lul, saves us $$ on groceries compared to where we live 30 min away. $12.50 per week to drive to work. AND...I drink a vodka before bed to get a good nights sleep. Just had a drink.

Otherwise I do not drink alcohol at home or anywhere else.

I SHOULD be in bed. It's midnight and I need to get up at 7:20am tomorrow.

So really think about whether this job might be worth it. Look at the fringe benefits too. Sure a little extra free time is devoted BUT if you factor that into your hourly wage, fringe benefits, the hours (is it 3-4 days per week?) A dollar saved is a dollar earned.

Lots of things to take into consideration....we've saved alot on our weekly groceries shopping Grocery Outlet in this town and me putting the groceries in staff fridge. There are some cheap health food stores here with good sales too. So I suspect I'll make closer to $16 or so per hour next year. Our dental work will be complete so no savings there. Work 3 days per week most of the time, paid to sleep 25 % of my shift is pretty nice.

Good luck ~
and please keep us updated



.

Last edited by MaxTheDog; 07-27-2017 at 03:15 AM..
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