How to find unsophisticated locations for your field

[pittsflyer]

Originally Posted by Serious Conversation

That's one way to look at it.

Local governments have thrown out all sorts of concessions over the last few years to attract and retain quality employers. Several years back, Johnson City, TN gave NN, Inc. multiple incentives to HQ in our local area. They took over an office building, etc. Now that the incentives are expiring, they're packing up and heading to Charlotte.

Johnson City Press: UPDATED: NN Inc. to move headquarters to Charlotte

My aunt works for the local office of Charter Communications as a manager in an office for escalated billing concerns. This is cable billing - not exactly rocket science, and Charter is sending the jobs from Tennessee to New York City.

The CEO of the only Fortune 500 employer in the area says the area needs amenities to attract talent. But amenities go to growing, healthy areas, where the talent generally already is.

Eastman CEO Costa says region needs more amenities to attract talent.

It's definitely a chicken and egg problem. The low end workers often get stuck in areas like this because they don't have the skills to find a job elsewhere before they move, and the higher end workers have mostly had to leave for elsewhere. The few remaining higher end openings often have a hard time attracting and retaining non-local residents.

In my case my area was once booming and still has the amenities but the massive job losses (including mine) have JUST hit the market. So alot of the jobs are gone but alot of the recently laid off are still in the area, my guess is their life styles were such that they wont be able to maintain on unemployment and the uhauls out vs uhauls in are 80/30 so people are already leaving. BUT businesses are closing and it is very quickly becoming a place that wont have ammenities soon, very soon, violent crime has shot up like a rocket in just a few years.


The rub is my entire family, extended family is here along with real estate we own (non income generating unfortunatly), kid in school, etc so leaving would not make sense. My wife still has a good job but it does not quite cover the bills. I could work a low end job but then I end up with the dreaded resume gap so that when things turn around I have 3 years of working at a liquor store dont look good as a professional engineer.


I am trying to find utility jobs (water, power, gas, etc) but I am not getting the responses and the water job said they are "fortunate that they have so many qualified applicants", I am guessing that they are getting last ditch applicants that want to stay before their vacation time runs out or there are more people than I think that have been smart with their money and can remain here and continue to compete with me, all of us just sitting around on unemployment circling like vultures for the one or two openings, of course unemployment runs out after a year and I wonder how many would then be competing with me for the liquor store job.


My first job out of school took a year and a half to get, but I lived at home, I had student loans but what are they going to do if your broke. Now I have no debt but we have a house, we bought responsibly where we could cover everything except like 500$ a month but if I am competing with lingering engineers and technicians for liquor store jobs thats a bad deal.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by pittsflyer

I could work a low end job but then I end up with the dreaded resume gap...

Don't make that mistaken assumption.

You don't have to brag on the work you did but being able to say that you did it,
whatever the work was that you could get to preserve savings and stay out of debt...
you don't want to work for anyone who would prefer you had stayed idle.
(this issue comes up a lot around this forum section)

3 years of working at a liquor store don't look good as a professional engineer.

Nope. But looking good as a professional engineer isn't the measurement that counts.
You don't want to work for anyone who doesn't appreciate the point.

I am trying to find utility jobs (water, power, gas, etc) but I am not getting...

You'll have to move to get the sort of job you're qualified for anytime soon.
Can you wait 10-15 years for your town to recover?

I have no debt but we have a house, we bought responsibly where we could cover everything
except like 500$ a month but ... thats a bad deal.

Oh yeah... no doubt it's a bad deal.

Be one of the first to get hired at the Liquor Store (or wherever).
The guys hired later will be paid even less.

[tnff]

Originally Posted by Serious Conversation

That's one way to look at it.

Local governments have thrown out all sorts of concessions over the last few years to attract and retain quality employers. Several years back, Johnson City, TN gave NN, Inc. multiple incentives to HQ in our local area. They took over an office building, etc. Now that the incentives are expiring, they're packing up and heading to Charlotte.

Johnson City Press: UPDATED: NN Inc. to move headquarters to Charlotte

My aunt works for the local office of Charter Communications as a manager in an office for escalated billing concerns. This is cable billing - not exactly rocket science, and Charter is sending the jobs from Tennessee to New York City.

The CEO of the only Fortune 500 employer in the area says the area needs amenities to attract talent. But amenities go to growing, healthy areas, where the talent generally already is.

Eastman CEO Costa says region needs more amenities to attract talent.

It's definitely a chicken and egg problem. The low end workers often get stuck in areas like this because they don't have the skills to find a job elsewhere before they move, and the higher end workers have mostly had to leave for elsewhere. The few remaining higher end openings often have a hard time attracting and retaining non-local residents.

I also live in Tn, though different part. Much of the problem we seem to have in this state is they are willing to give huge incentives to get companies here but are unwilling to put any money into amenities outside the key areas of Knoxville and Nashville. Way to many of the residents of this state are unable to see the value in anything they don't personally use, whether it be bike lanes or better parks and rec, or roads. Same with schools -- too many have the attitude of "my kids have already graduated so why should we build new schools." As we've explored colleges we've even seen that difference between in state schools such as Tech and ETSU vs out of state schools in Alabama, North Carolina, and other surrounding states. The in state colleges are run down and dilapidated vs out of state schools. And sure some will argue that it doesn't matter, but the real statistics show the difference in six year graduation rates, post graduation jobs, GPA, ACT/SAT scores, etc.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by pittsflyer

In my case my area was once booming and still has the amenities but the massive job losses (including mine) have JUST hit the market. So alot of the jobs are gone but alot of the recently laid off are still in the area, my guess is their life styles were such that they wont be able to maintain on unemployment and the uhauls out vs uhauls in are 80/30 so people are already leaving. BUT businesses are closing and it is very quickly becoming a place that wont have ammenities soon, very soon, violent crime has shot up like a rocket in just a few years.

The rub is my entire family, extended family is here along with real estate we own (non income generating unfortunatly), kid in school, etc so leaving would not make sense. My wife still has a good job but it does not quite cover the bills. I could work a low end job but then I end up with the dreaded resume gap so that when things turn around I have 3 years of working at a liquor store dont look good as a professional engineer.

I am trying to find utility jobs (water, power, gas, etc) but I am not getting the responses and the water job said they are "fortunate that they have so many qualified applicants", I am guessing that they are getting last ditch applicants that want to stay before their vacation time runs out or there are more people than I think that have been smart with their money and can remain here and continue to compete with me, all of us just sitting around on unemployment circling like vultures for the one or two openings, of course unemployment runs out after a year and I wonder how many would then be competing with me for the liquor store job.

My first job out of school took a year and a half to get, but I lived at home, I had student loans but what are they going to do if your broke. Now I have no debt but we have a house, we bought responsibly where we could cover everything except like 500$ a month but if I am competing with lingering engineers and technicians for liquor store jobs thats a bad deal.

That is why I'm very hesitant on buying a home here. I have a good job now, but my company is going through a merger. I don't feel my job is in immediate jeopardy, but what if I get cut in the merger? Even if I survive, houses here (outside of the college town about half an hour away from my current office) can sit on the market for months without moving. Homes in even the most desirable areas aren't even appreciating at the rate of inflation over the past decade. It's probably a better deal than renting - at least you are building equity (almost exclusively through principal paydown, not appreciation), get tax benefits, and are protected from future increases. You aren't going to gain much, if anything, from appreciation.

I made a long post on my local forum yesterday that this type of thing is a major problem in a lot of small towns and rural areas all over the country. The areas may not have much competition, but there is almost nothing in the way of professional employment there. Let's say you do get a decent job offer there, but that company closes. Then what? You're moving again or back at the liquor store.

It's hard for the "unsophisticated" places to get any traction given the environment we're in where corporate and professional jobs are consolidating in fewer and fewer areas.

Originally Posted by tnff

I also live in Tn, though different part. Much of the problem we seem to have in this state is they are willing to give huge incentives to get companies here but are unwilling to put any money into amenities outside the key areas of Knoxville and Nashville. Way to many of the residents of this state are unable to see the value in anything they don't personally use, whether it be bike lanes or better parks and rec, or roads. Same with schools -- too many have the attitude of "my kids have already graduated so why should we build new schools." As we've explored colleges we've even seen that difference between in state schools such as Tech and ETSU vs out of state schools in Alabama, North Carolina, and other surrounding states. The in state colleges are run down and dilapidated vs out of state schools. And sure some will argue that it doesn't matter, but the real statistics show the difference in six year graduation rates, post graduation jobs, GPA, ACT/SAT scores, etc.

ETSU is doing much better over the last five years or so with its new president. The previous president decommissioned the football program (which is now back and a new stadium was built, with great community support), morale was low, and things were getting rundown. Many of the dorms when I started in 2004 were rundown - today, those buildings have been bulldozed and new dorms built.

I doubt you're going to see much of a difference between schools like ETSU and Western Carolina University. With that said, yes, anything outside of Knoxville and Nashville is basically neglected by the state government and we're left fending for ourselves. Our local leadership is inept but the lack of support from the state government is discouraging as well.

[pittsflyer]

Originally Posted by Serious Conversation

That is why I'm very hesitant on buying a home here. I have a good job now, but my company is going through a merger. I don't feel my job is in immediate jeopardy, but what if I get cut in the merger? Even if I survive, houses here (outside of the college town about half an hour away from my current office) can sit on the market for months without moving. Homes in even the most desirable areas aren't even appreciating at the rate of inflation over the past decade. It's probably a better deal than renting - at least you are building equity (almost exclusively through principal paydown, not appreciation), get tax benefits, and are protected from future increases. You aren't going to gain much, if anything, from appreciation.

I made a long post on my local forum yesterday that this type of thing is a major problem in a lot of small towns and rural areas all over the country. The areas may not have much competition, but there is almost nothing in the way of professional employment there. Let's say you do get a decent job offer there, but that company closes. Then what? You're moving again or back at the liquor store.

It's hard for the "unsophisticated" places to get any traction given the environment we're in where corporate and professional jobs are consolidating in fewer and fewer areas.



ETSU is doing much better over the last five years or so with its new president. The previous president decommissioned the football program (which is now back and a new stadium was built, with great community support), morale was low, and things were getting rundown. Many of the dorms when I started in 2004 were rundown - today, those buildings have been bulldozed and new dorms built.

I doubt you're going to see much of a difference between schools like ETSU and Western Carolina University. With that said, yes, anything outside of Knoxville and Nashville is basically neglected by the state government and we're left fending for ourselves. Our local leadership is inept but the lack of support from the state government is discouraging as well.

What we did was saved for a massive down on our house so that it would be easy to rent out if we left then get it paid off along with investment in dividend stocks or reits so we always have a “base of operations”. But we still owe quite a bit. I would also like to start a buisness as well but need a little more infrastructure (ie heated shop outside of our garage).