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Great, but not everyone can work in IT, right?
Not everyone can become an engineer.
Not everyone can become a doctor.
People are not asking to make six figures, but they are asking to make a living wage.
What is a "living" wage?
I don't understand the mindset of low IQ, unskilled jobs "deserving" much above minimum wage. If you want a good wage, improve yourself (ie do research on the skills needed, instead of the skills you "think" deserve higher pay)
I work for the government and make a great wage with great benefits and a secure retirement.
But I know that there are MANY people who are not as fortunate, and I would never presume to tell someone to 'just move', or 'there are plenty of jobs!' when that simply is not the case for everyone.
Your assumption is just as bad as the others.
Or start your own business is another one thrown around here.
What is a "living" wage?
I don't understand the mindset of low IQ, unskilled jobs "deserving" much above minimum wage. If you want a good wage, improve yourself (ie do research on the skills needed, instead of the skills you "think" deserve higher pay)
There is a huge gap between IT, doctors, engineers, and 'low IQ, unskilled jobs.
Those are the jobs that are not coming back - the jobs that people somehow forget about when they mention 'Just major in IT' or some other nonsense.
No, a McFlipper does not deserve $15/hr. But that's not what we are talking about here. Or least, that should not be what we are talking about here. Have people forgotten middle class jobs already?
Or start your own business is another one thrown around here.
Yep. As if everyone can do that - and this is not a profitable avenue for everyone.
Some things are beyond people's control. I'll make an assumption myself and say that only those who have never had to truly suffer do not understand this.
I work for the government and make a great wage with great benefits and a secure retirement.
But I know that there are MANY people who are not as fortunate, and I would never presume to tell someone to 'just move', or 'there are plenty of jobs!' when that simply is not the case for everyone.
Your assumption is just as bad as the others.
I work for the government and make a **** wage with great benefits and a secure retirement.
And I agree that there are MANY people who are not as fortunate, and I would never presume to tell someone to 'just move', or 'there are plenty of jobs!' when that simply is not the case for everyone. I'm not the one telling people to just move bc thats not a reasonable solution for most people.
The three major employers in my area all filed bankruptcy at the same time. 1000’s of people layed off at one time. Some have been called back most have not. Pensions have been turned over to the PBGC and are paying out for pennies on the dollar. People ran through their severance and their savings just trying to keep afloat. A plant that once employed 10,000 now employees less then 600. The jobs that have been lost were good paying middle class jobs with great benefits. They’re not coming back. It’s very easy to say move, start your own business, go back to school etc. but until you have been in that position you don’t have a single clue how devastating it can be to the individual and the community. We have people with college degrees who are working minimum wage retail jobs.
I work for the government and make a great wage with great benefits and a secure retirement.
But I know that there are MANY people who are not as fortunate, and I would never presume to tell someone to 'just move', or 'there are plenty of jobs!' when that simply is not the case for everyone.
Your assumption is just as bad as the others.
What is your expectation then?
If there are truly no good paying jobs in an area, those who want to be successful move. Not because they want to, but because they have to. Or... they find another field to work into that will allow them to stay put. That is a conscious choice one has to make.
Everything boils down to choices made. Everything. You cannot condemn people who made good choices when they say that someone in these situations have made bad choices. You cannot lay blame to any outside circumstances (aside from the rare medical issue, etc..) BEFORE evaluating the choices you have made up to this point.
Before someone says no jobs they should clarify: Are there truly no jobs, are there no jobs you are qualified for, or are there no jobs you want to do? All three of those create much different options.
If there are truly no jobs, you have to move out of necessity.
If there are no jobs you are qualified for (which plays into wages), then you have to improve your skill to qualify for the better jobs.
If there are no jobs you want, then that's too bad. Potentially working a job you don't like is a fact of life. You could again improve your skills to try and work towards a job you enjoy more.
Assuming people should be paid more "just because" is reckless because the market may not be able to support it. It increases product and service costs which in turn means that you make more, but it costs more to live. Cause and effect.
The three major employers in my area all filed bankruptcy at the same time. 1000’s of people layed off at one time. Some have been called back most have not. Pensions have been turned over to the PBGC and are paying out for pennies on the dollar. People ran through their severance and their savings just trying to keep afloat. A plant that once employed 10,000 now employees less then 600. The jobs that have been lost were good paying middle class jobs with great benefits. They’re not coming back. It’s very easy to say move, start your own business, go back to school etc. but until you have been in that position you don’t have a single clue how devastating it can be to the individual and the community. We have people with college degrees who are working minimum wage retail jobs.
Exactly. As I said before, some people just can't see the forest for the trees when it comes to this. It's so easy to tell other people to "just do this ...." when you're not in their position or living their lives not knowing all the factors and events they go thru day in and day out. Where I'm at now is about to have a very similar scenario happening here. The layoffs have already started but they're going to get much, MUCH worse. You can't just tell these hundreds of people (mostly old factory workers) to just "go do something else" or "move to another location". It's not feasible and certainly not realistic. But their jobs are going to be gone regardless.
I'm going to break this down into pieces to address. There are some comments here that stem from a flawed observation of reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy HalfNelson
Exactly. As I said before, some people just can't see the forest for the trees when it comes to this. It's so easy to tell other people to "just do this ...." when you're not in their position or living their lives not knowing all the factors and events they go thru day in and day out.
When you say this, you assume that people giving this advice have never been through a rough time in their lives. The truth of the matter is that in many cases it is BECAUSE of these experiences many of us have found a way out. When you think there is a solution to a problem, you're right. When you think there is no solution to a problem, you're right too. It all depends on your willpower to find something better and using past experience as a guide for what not to repeat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy HalfNelson
Where I'm at now is about to have a very similar scenario happening here. The layoffs have already started but they're going to get much, MUCH worse. You can't just tell these hundreds of people (mostly old factory workers) to just "go do something else" or "move to another location". It's not feasible and certainly not realistic. But their jobs are going to be gone regardless.
Then what do you suggest the solution be? If the company cannot remain in business or can no longer sustain the cost of x number of employees, they just can't. Would your solution be to have people remain on the payroll in an empty building until such time as the bank seizes it and forces them out? And then what? Who is supposed to step in and take care of these people.
You cannot blindly go to work each day and do a job and go home. You cannot sit around and be complacent in your job and hope that it will be guaranteed. It never works, and always fails eventually. Back to my original post about personal accountability. YOU are responsible for the results of your life. That doesn't mean you are responsible for a layoff or anything of the sort, but you ARE responsible for how you come out the other side of the tunnel.
People who ignore these things are making a choice not to participate in their own lives. They are choosing to sit idle while the rest of the world moves on without them and then looking back as if someone should have told them to prepare. You don't prepare for something after it happens. And to assume that no one else has any more wisdom than those complaining about a tough go in life is foolish. People are successful because of the effort they put in. Not by waiting for a job to fall in their lap.
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