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Really? Okay, most jobs don't involve "creativity." Work for the most part is repetitive. Work is not supposed to provide amusement. It's a task. Suck it up. At least you are granted paid vacation and benefits.
i loved coding also but hated working under tight timelines. I always found satisfaction in finding creative ways to solve small problems along the way of finishing a project.
The best part of coding is finishing a project and knowing you did a good job when the program works.
I spent 4 years in college studying alot of amazing things about accounting. But, I only used 1% of it at my first job over and over and over again.
I remember this family guy episode where someone was working in an assembly line. His job was to attached a heads to action figures.... IT FELT EXACTLY LIKE THAT!!
Maybe the author will be happier if he switched to a smaller company where his job will play a larger role and get to do a little bit everything. it worked for me
Really? Okay, most jobs don't involve "creativity." Work for the most part is repetitive. Work is not supposed to provide amusement. It's a task. Suck it up. At least you are granted paid vacation and benefits.
Knowledgeiskey: Are you a software developer? Because this job is definitely NOT repetitive. It involves constant learning and upgrading of skills. It is easy to say to "suck it up" to any intensely unreasonable situation.
I was a software developer and thankfully have retired out of it. I decided to stop sucking it up and to stop being a masochist. I started programming in 1980 and have seen software development careers get more demanding, less satisfying, and too complicated for my taste. Excessive deadline pressures, never ending demands for uncompensated overtime work, after hours support, degradation of compensation, and mandatory continual learning can make this career unstable and unbearable.
I was fortunate to be able to retire with my mind and my health in one piece and move to an optional new career which is far easier, less stressful, does not involve overtime work, and provides for a lot of time off.
Knowledgeiskey: Are you a software developer? Because this job is definitely NOT repetitive. It involves constant learning and upgrading of skills. It is easy to say to "suck it up" to any intensely unreasonable situation.
I was a software developer and thankfully have retired out of it. I decided to stop sucking it up and to stop being a masochist. I started programming in 1980 and have seen software development careers get more demanding, less satisfying, and too complicated for my taste. Excessive deadline pressures, never ending demands for uncompensated overtime work, after hours support, degradation of compensation, and mandatory continual learning can make this career unstable and unbearable.
I was fortunate to be able to retire with my mind and my health in one piece and move to an optional new career which is far easier, less stressful, does not involve overtime work, and provides for a lot of time off.
Goodbye software development. Hello retirement!
Retirement was a smart move. I see a lot of ageism in programming. The pattern seems to be that the companies prefer young programmers just-out-of-college with no wife or children. The reason is that the young college graduates can put in the 11-13 hours (or more) per day while being underpaid (unknowingly due to lack of experience) and without management leverage to counter the politics and greed. So, the young graduates are often overworked and underpaid.
From the "young graduate side" there is often narcissism and the belief that older programmers are technically obsolete. Some may recall Mark Zuckerberg's infamous quote ten years ago where he asserted 22-year old programmers are just smarter. (Ironically, he is know deep in his 30s. I wonder how he feels about that now?). http://www.tmz.com/2017/09/22/facebo...l-termination/
So the development environment is just bizarre - older programmers past the age of 35 are often undesired and viewed as expendable. Those just-out-of-college are in extreme demand but treated badly (in my opinion) because they don't know any better (oftentimes). Management gets away with it.
The net pattern is early burnout and retirement - better to do other things when you get to your mid 30s (LOL). A compromise could be to go into a specialized area like machine learning, cybersecurity, or embedded systems (HDL and verilog), IoT, etc. But general programming itself is kind of unrealistic and inverted in regards to the hierarchy: management prefers the young programmers, older programmers are viewed as obsolete, and the young programmers can be overworked and underpaid for a net outcome of early career burnout.
I used to think the hospital caste system was really bad. There is a lot of workplace bullying. But at least they respect seniority and experience on an institutional level. The medical student has to be subordinate to the resident who is subordinate to the attending physician. Not to be naive, there can be a lot of bullying in that hierarchy. But at least the experience and rank are noted and generally given recognition (even if to a minor extent). By contrast, the world of software development is inverted from that - especially at a startup in Silicon Valley. The 35 year old programmer is expendable compared to the 22 year old college graduate who himself or herself will likely burnout and become expendable when they too become 35 (not too long from now).
Last edited by grad_student200; 11-24-2017 at 05:19 AM..
Retirement was a smart move. I see a lot of ageism in programming. The pattern seems to be that the companies prefer young programmers just-out-of-college with no wife or children. The reason is that the young college graduates can put in the 11-13 hours (or more) per day while being underpaid (unknowingly due to lack of experience) and without management leverage to counter the politics and greed. So, the young graduates are often overworked and underpaid.
From the "young graduate side" there is often narcissism and the belief that older programmers are technically obsolete. Some may recall Mark Zuckerberg's infamous quote ten years ago where he asserted 22-year old programmers are just smarter. (Ironically, he is know deep in his 30s. I wonder how he feels about that now?). Facebook Sued for Age Discrimination, Accused of Mocking 50-Year-Old | TMZ.com
So the development environment is just bizarre - older programmers past the age of 35 are often undesired and viewed as expendable. Those just-out-of-college are in extreme demand but treated badly (in my opinion) because they don't know any better (oftentimes). Management gets away with it.
The net pattern is early burnout and retirement - better to do other things when you get to your mid 30s (LOL). A compromise could be to go into a specialized area like machine learning, cybersecurity, or embedded systems (HDL and verilog), IoT, etc. But general programming itself is kind of unrealistic and inverted in regards to the hierarchy: management prefers the young programmers, older programmers are viewed as obsolete, and the young programmers can be overworked and underpaid for a net outcome of early career burnout.
I used to think the hospital caste system was really bad. There is a lot of workplace bullying. But at least they respect seniority and experience on an institutional level. The medical student has to be subordinate to the resident who is subordinate to the attending physician. Not to be naive, there can be a lot of bullying in that hierarchy. But at least the experience and rank are noted and generally given recognition (even if to a minor extent). By contrast, the world of software development is inverted from that - especially at a startup in Silicon Valley. The 35 year old programmer is expendable compared to the 22 year old college graduate who himself or herself will likely burnout and become expendable when they too become 35 (not too long from now).
grad_student200: Outstanding post. You have described this situation very well. I agree with you 100%.
I was fortunate to be able to retire with my mind and my health in one piece and move to an optional new career which is far easier, less stressful, does not involve overtime work, and provides for a lot of time off.
From the "young graduate side" there is often narcissism and the belief that older programmers are technically obsolete. Some may recall Mark Zuckerberg's infamous quote ten years ago where he asserted 22-year old programmers are just smarter. (Ironically, he is know deep in his 30s. I wonder how he feels about that now?). Facebook Sued for Age Discrimination, Accused of Mocking 50-Year-Old | TMZ.com
To give The Devil his due, as the expression goes, when it comes to mathematical/quantitative (i.e., logical) thinking, it's like with athleticism -- the younger are simply stronger...period.
Of course, there's many kinds of "smarts" (just as there are many ways to be physically "strong," never mind all the non-physical ways), but that's probably what Asperger meant there (as STEM types usually mostly do when using the word "smart")...and he's no longer a programmer now but a businessman so I think he'd still think he was right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grad_student200
So the development environment is just bizarre - older programmers past the age of 35 are often undesired and viewed as expendable. Those just-out-of-college are in extreme demand but treated badly (in my opinion) because they don't know any better (oftentimes). Management gets away with it.
But it's not bizarre at all but perfectly logical -- you've just explained it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by grad_student200
... go into a specialized area like machine learning, cybersecurity, or embedded systems (HDL and verilog), IoT, etc.
Indeed, cybersecurity is really, really big. This is where to go -- not just programming (though of course programming know-how would be invaluable).
Quote:
Originally Posted by grad_student200
But general programming itself is kind of unrealistic and inverted in regards to the hierarchy: management prefers the young programmers, older programmers are viewed as obsolete, and the young programmers can be overworked and underpaid for a net outcome of early career burnout.
See all the free teach-yourself-programming resources online? There's a reason for that...hint: it's like with securities -- if Main Street has finally heard about it, Wall Street's already made its killing. You can bank on that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by grad_student200
But at least they respect seniority and experience on an institutional level. The medical student has to be subordinate to the resident who is subordinate to the attending physician. Not to be naive, there can be a lot of bullying in that hierarchy. But at least the experience and rank are noted and generally given recognition (even if to a minor extent).
Absolutely not...the "respect" is simply a way of fig-leafing the rampant bullying, which is absolutely NOT necessary -- just like how sadism is absolutely NOT necessary for creating good soldiers, sailors, airmen, and, even, Marines.
My new career is substitute teaching. It is intellectually less demanding, is much less stressful, there is no overtime work required, and I get a lot of time off. I am really enjoying it.
To give The Devil his due, as the expression goes, when it comes to mathematical/quantitative (i.e., logical) thinking, it's like with athleticism -- the younger are simply stronger...period
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Don't drink the Kool-Aid!
I disagree with this part of your discussion. In terms of intelligence, it is like exercise. The more you do it, the better you are. The human brain is also not fully developed until after 30. I know that I was a better programmer at 55 rather than 25. In addition, there is increased confidence in respect to "been there, done that". That has been the experience of all of my colleagues that I talked about this as well.
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Software Development is Not What It Used To Be
