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Did you study in America? Question: what possible job can an 18 year old get that will allow them to comfortably "be on their own?"
parents owned a business, grew up watching the, run it, decided it wasnt for me so i found something i could do that wasnt the family business...
is there a reason other families dont do this? they dot even have to own the business, teach the kids about your own jobs, see if they like it. if not teach them how to do the jobs they do want to do
all i hear about are people saying parents told them go to college and they can be whatever they want, what did the oarents ever teach about being that peofession? kid wants to be a cop? did parent have kids volunteer or interact with cops? want to be a doctor because they saw it on tv? how about taking them to the family doctor and letting them talk about their experiences? or sending them to summer camps that focused on things that those jobs do?
ubi is not needed if people learned how to make money, when kids can make money on youtube by unpacking toys and reviewing them, or playing video games at home. what excuse do adults have for not making enough for their own lifestyle? if they want to be poor, they can do it without dragging the rest of us with them. if they want to make more money, they can do it, if they want help fine, but it wont be a life long clutch
what do people do with ubi? they say if they had it, they could persue their passion, is there a reason they cant now? and find a way to profit from it? nothing is stopping them
parents owned a business, grew up watching the, run it, decided it wasnt for me so i found something i could do that wasnt the family business...
is there a reason other families dont do this? they dot even have to own the business, teach the kids about your own jobs, see if they like it. if not teach them how to do the jobs they do want to do
all i hear about are people saying parents told them go to college and they can be whatever they want, what did the oarents ever teach about being that peofession? kid wants to be a cop? did parent have kids volunteer or interact with cops? want to be a doctor because they saw it on tv? how about taking them to the family doctor and letting them talk about their experiences? or sending them to summer camps that focused on things that those jobs do?
ubi is not needed if people learned how to make money, when kids can make money on youtube by unpacking toys and reviewing them, or playing video games at home. what excuse do adults have for not making enough for their own lifestyle? if they want to be poor, they can do it without dragging the rest of us with them. if they want to make more money, they can do it, if they want help fine, but it wont be a life long clutch
what do people do with ubi? they say if they had it, they could persue their passion, is there a reason they cant now? and find a way to profit from it? nothing is stopping them
Because what employers want is getting increasingly fickle. Something even a high school senior is researching at 18 can be "obsolete" by the time they get out of the training pipe 2-4 years down the road. Also even if things are still hot 4 years later, its not impossible that they have 2-4 years of a "career" in said field and then ope mass lay offs sorry you need a new degree and all new skills.
Did you study in America? Question: what possible job can an 18 year old get that will allow them to comfortably "be on their own?"
I had no support from my parents, when I was 20. I dropped out of the local college at 20, after losing my grant.. I was able to pay for an efficient apartment, while my brother and sister rented rooms in a house.
Saved up money for a car, and studied for Comptia A+ with a used book from Amazon. I passed the cert, was still working the same salary as an internet tech support guy. A year later, I quit for double the money. I kept doubling or increasing my pay and studying on my own with used books.
I started at the bottom at worked my way up, like many others. I do alright now making over $120k doing some technical stuff, as a college drop out with no debt.
Ultimately, I believe that we are headed towards a National Guaranteed Income program. I believe that it's inevitable, especially when capitalism's ugly head rears itself once too often, resulting in massive economic inequality..
The key thing with UBI is that it will force employers to increase wages for crap jobs, people will no longer have to take crap pay because they are desperate to survive. The UBI will allow people to hold out for their true worth.
Leveraging peoples basic human needs against them is an artificail way to reduce peoples pay to less than they are worth.
One way to combat the "welfare queen" concern as it would pertain to the UBI would be to allow the income increase to apply only to two children per family (or whatever) or to have it diminish rapidly after that number. So if each adult got 12K/year (to be more in line with what one poster a couple pages back said is the poverty level for an individual), then maybe they'd get 6K/year for two kids, then 3K for the third kid, 1K for the fourth, and no more after that.
But having "levels" of UBI goes against the "universal" part of "UBI" and, moreover, gets us right back into current practices -- not the least of which is all the supervisory administration necessary!
Or are we to just bear the population boom for a generation or two until wider education makes people have less kids?
And what will we do with the illegal aliens -- both in our midst and to come in case of UBI??
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Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy
As far as people freeloading... let's be honest, we already have that. How many people are making genuine contributions to society other than what they're getting paid to do?
My apologies; I'd meant the term "freeloader" with "baby factories" in mind. Poor choice of words on my part (not for p.c. reasons but due to inevitable misunderstanding).
Agreed. Many people are against safety nets because it's giving something to someone who they perceive as not working hard enough to deserve it. There's also that pervasive "welfare queen" myth. In truth, most people receiving benefits are working, many of them full-time. (That's not counting the people who are disabled, elderly, or children.) So then the person might assume that they're not working "hard enough" to deserve to live in a safe home or to eat more than ramen and PBJ sandwiches. No one without employer-subsidized health insurance should get to go to the doctor; they should just "go get a better job with benefits." (And the most ironic part is that they don't even seem to realize that the very nature of health insurance is that healthy people are paying for the medical care of those who need it... so when Bob-who-has-blue-cross goes to the doctor for his high blood pressure, someone with no health problems is footing that bill through their premiums.)
Of course, these same people have no problem taking government-subsidized public transportation or sending their kids to public schools or driving on roads maintained by tax dollars or calling the police (whose salaries are paid for by taxes). Never mind that some of the people paying taxes for those services don't have children in the public schools and haven't ever needed to call the police.
I gotta say, though, that being homeless has made me a Republican (not completely but in many ways)...there really are a shocking number of freeloaders who always have money for booze/candy/cigarettes/coffee/weed/etc. but none for food, socks, slippers (morons walk around barefoot...in a homeless shelter!!), underwear, soap, toilet paper (less than a dollar at the store where they get their cigarettes), etc., etc., etc.
Many have smartphones and internet service (and not just 'cause of so-called "Obama Phones") but they can't seem to get the money necessary for job application fees such as government jobs charge, or transportation money for the bus (they effectively ride the buses free 'cause 99% of NYC drivers will not really challenge anyone who insists on riding and will not get off the bus -- in such neighborhoods, the passengers will often side with the scofflaw!), etc., etc., etc.
In case of UBI, what's to be done about these people??
It's because they think they deserve it because they "know" they work hard and have paid in/earned it, while they perceive all others who use public services or welfare as being lazy and entitled. If you watch enough Fox News, you'll also conclude that most people on welfare are named Lateesha, who has an Obama-smart phone, four kids from four different daddy's, no job, no college, buys liquor with food stamps, and is a crack addict.
That is their general idea of what a welfare recipient is.
I gotta tell ya that the stereotypes are true in at least nine out of ten cases.
I know from first-hand experience: these people are extremely entitled, for all their ignorance...complaining, for example, about the welfare office (called "Job Centers" in the NYC government's Orwellian double-speak) not having daycare facilities! People who literally litter everywhere they go and then complain about how the government "doesn't care about us"...people who go on disability to assure themselves of a kind of UBI and then go on to hustle more money holding doors open with their kids in tow (young kids, too!!)....
I ain't no friend of the rich but the poor are poor in many ways because of themselves. I do sympathize, however, because it's hard to know what you don't know, you know what I mean? And the poor do not know even though it's easy for us who do know to feel like they should know better....
because i dont feel that robotics will take away jobs... it takes away labor
Seems like a distinction without a difference -- "six of one or half a dozen of the other"...for you see you go on to say:
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Originally Posted by MLSFan
yes, if your only skill is providing labor, then you are going to be replaced, but that would have happened when you got older anyway when a younger worker came by without the aches and pains
but jobs will not disappear, you learn how to work without labor, and learn to use machines as tools
But the whole point of robots is that they will replace even the "tool-users" -- software can already create software, only to a limited extent, but it's not implausible that their creations will become more and more sophisticated such that programmers will no longer be necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan
dont tell me people are "dumb" so they cant learn new jobs, modern jobs have people sit there and monitor screens and presses buttons, all things people do playing that chicken game on their iphone.
It's not that people are "dumb" -- they're the ones who created the machines, the robots, after all -- but it's that the improvement is exponential...it will be like fighting against infection with present technology; we'll never catch up since the rate of change is geometric, exponential.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan
its the same way i see those $15/ hr protestors, they are simply too lazy/unmotivated to do something "new" where they are out of their comfortzone, they like being in a job where they can screw up, where they have little expectations/responsibilities. many of them are fired because they walk off their job, or cant show up on time.
The analogies you make demonstrate clearly that you just don't understand what "automation" really means for our future.
When General A.I. is achieved -- decades away to be sure but so is Chinese domination, and we see how they get stronger every day and they're just humans! -- it will be like when mankind first discovered fire.
It will totally change the very course of human civilization and evolution itself.
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