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We were looking to hire a couple machine learning engineer last month. The number of woman who applied for the role was THREE and neither had the adaquete experience or skill set, so we hired two men (one white, one asian).
Companies like mine are just filling roles and hiring based on what is available on the job market.
If you want more women to have these jobs, then encourage more women to study math, stats, cs, etc.
What if those are the employees which exude the best management characteristics or was good at his role?
It's too simplistic to say that "this happened", it's because of him being white.
I am not on that team.
Well, we have had lots of high talent women bounce due to lack of movement or not getting the proper guidance in ordee to grow their careers. This is what I have heard from the people that left. The engineering org is mostly male, and almost al of the turnover has been female.
We had a female team lead who was working to counteract this issue, and made some progress. And even she left. We have a new male team lead, and he has heard this is a problem, so he is working to fix it, as is the VP. This is what I have heard first hand.
The broader perspective in the company is that the engineering team is basically guaranteed a promotion after x period of time and for most other roles that path is not clear at all. This is also leading to turnover. It is happening on my own team, one of colleagues has already given notice. And I should be doing the same shortly into the new year.
Tech companies generally have immature process around personnel issues. And when a key hiring attribute is - can we be fruends outside of work, it is really easy to create an ingrained culture of bias. It is far easier for the informal networks to be exclusive when everyone hangs out all the time. And we know that tech people talk about work outside of work too, so the people in the "in-group" interact more, know more about each others accomplishments and so on. The outsiders do not ave that access and face time.
Recently an engineer got married. About 30 people from the team and the CEO were in attendance. Basically everyone attending that wedding has seen a lot of promotions. They also go skiing together, to burning man and who knows what other social activities. The other 30 people on the team? Well their path has been a lot slower.
Most of the turnover has been from people outside that friend group.
We had a female team lead who was working to counteract this issue, and made some progress. And even she left.
....
Tech companies generally have immature process around personnel issues. And when a key hiring attribute is - can we be fruends outside of work, it is really easy to create an ingrained culture of bias. It is far easier for the informal networks to be exclusive when everyone hangs out all the time.
This sounds a lot like my office.
We have a female senior manager for the department who has fought for equality. While she was setting up a new team in Ireland for 3 weeks, our department director hired a (male) co-manager to work beside her...without even informing her it was happening. Was it intentional to leave her out? Seems so, given that we always include team members in hiring decisions and there was no rush to add someone. Based on that and her being excluded from some high profile projects, she's looking to leave.
Personally, the "you have to be friends" thing is what bothers me most. There are two men on my team who are unqualified and underperforming, but they received two raises each this year without requesting it. I had to draw a line in the sand to get one small raise even though I am #1 in stack ranking. They are best friends with the director of our department. You can do the math on that.
ITT: Lots of women over exaggerating their ability. I have worked in female-dominated offices/areas and more equal mixed groups and I always had more trouble on average dealing with other women then men. With men most of the time they just want to work, some chit chat, and just focus on what they're doing, whereas so many women get off-topic, sabotage and backstab people, miss work due to child issues, women issues, baby daddy issues...it's ridiculous! And god forbid you are a woman in a female-dominated environment and you don't want to be a part of their "clique" you'll quickly become a target.
I much prefer working with/for men then women, sorry but it's the truth. Where are all you women hanging out with all these supposedly "bad men"? From my experience you're either greatly exaggerating or misunderstanding. Most guys are fun to hang out with and will accept you so long as you don't act all mean/whiny/entitled "me feminist hear me roar!" type which a lot of women end up acting like.
queue "OMG I never do anything wrong, I do everything so much better than any of these horrid sexist men, you have internalised misogny!"*
ITT: Lots of women over exaggerating their ability. I have worked in female-dominated offices/areas and more equal mixed groups and I always had more trouble on average dealing with other women then men. With men most of the time they just want to work, some chit chat, and just focus on what they're doing, whereas so many women get off-topic, sabotage and backstab people, miss work due to child issues, women issues, baby daddy issues...it's ridiculous! And god forbid you are a woman in a female-dominated environment and you don't want to be a part of their "clique" you'll quickly become a target.
I much prefer working with/for men then women, sorry but it's the truth. Where are all you women hanging out with all these supposedly "bad men"? From my experience you're either greatly exaggerating or misunderstanding. Most guys are fun to hang out with and will accept you so long as you don't act all mean/whiny/entitled "me feminist hear me roar!" type which a lot of women end up acting like.
queue "OMG I never do anything wrong, I do everything so much better than any of these horrid sexist men, you have internalised misogny!"*
I have seen this play out. Instead of actually doing work a group of the "cool" girls literally spent hours talking about another employee(not in the "cool" girls club) new hairdo, her "style", and other various problems they had with her. They were conspiring to find ways to affect her work performance so they could get her fired, some of the sabotage plans were pretty ingenious though. The really sad part is that all of these girls were above 30.
I have seen this play out. Instead of actually doing work a group of the "cool" girls literally spent hours talking about another employee(not in the "cool" girls club) new hairdo, her "style", and other various problems they had with her. They were conspiring to find ways to affect her work performance so they could get her fired, some of the sabotage plans were pretty ingenious though. The really sad part is that all of these girls were above 30.
Oh god yes! What I really hate is how women never get in trouble for doing the same thing a man would do in the office. If a man/men were saying lots of crude/mean things about a woman/women you bet they'd be in deep crap, severely reprimanded if not fired, but women can say/do all kinds of mean/nasty things to another woman it's viewed as "fair game". At my last job I actually went to HR over a woman that kept saying some inappropriate things about me (and other women) and, of course, nothing was done. Guarantee were it a guy he'd be packing up his stuff and booted out asap!
It's funny, women complain about "the boys club" and how awful it is, yet I'm sure these same women would happily be part of "the girls club" no matter how mean and unprofessional they are. Or when interviewing for a job women complain about how they think they'll be discriminated against yet I can tell you women can to. Interestingly enough, every time I have gotten a job it was when I was interviewed by a man, never had one when interviewed by a woman, coincidence? Probably not.
Ironic that those who are trying to prove there is no sexism in the workplace ignore post after post of actual data showing otherwise. Instead they present their little anecdotes as if they counter actual research.
Moss-Racusin, Corinne A., John F. Dovidio, Victoria L. Brescoll, Mark J. Graham, and Jo Handelsman. "Science faculty’s subtle gender biases favor male students." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 109, no. 41 (2012): 16474-16479.
Reuben, Ernesto, Paola Sapienza, and Luigi Zingales. "How stereotypes impair women’s careers in science." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 111, no. 12 (2014): 4403-4408.
Williams, Joan, Katherine W. Phillips, and Erika V. Hall. Double jeopardy?: Gender bias against women of color in science. Hastings College of the Law, Center for WorkLife Law, 2014.
Reuben, Ernesto, Paola Sapienza, and Luigi Zingales. "How stereotypes impair women’s careers in science." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 111, no. 12 (2014): 4403-4408.
Sheltzer, Jason M., and Joan C. Smith. "Elite male faculty in the life sciences employ fewer women." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 111, no. 28 (2014): 10107-10112.
Knobloch-Westerwick, Silvia, Carroll J. Glynn, and Michael Huge. "The Matilda effect in science communication: an experiment on gender bias in publication quality perceptions and collaboration interest." Science Communication 35, no. 5 (2013): 603-625.
Clancy, Kathryn BH, Robin G. Nelson, Julienne N. Rutherford, and Katie Hinde. "Survey of academic field experiences (SAFE): Trainees report harassment and assault." PLoS One 9, no. 7 (2014): e102172.
I totally agree IT departments the folks who are managing those departments now who are in their 50's were the ones who never got a date with any girls now they see younger woman in the technical fields who remind them of those years you might think I'm joking. Guys in their 50's going though mid-life they look back what they missed out on when a 25 year old nice looking woman works for them it reminds them when they were 20 something not getting a date with those girls. What I would do is find a different company to work for maybe woman owned or woman managed. I have even seen woman managers promote men I don't get that.
ITT: Lots of women over exaggerating their ability. I have worked in female-dominated offices/areas and more equal mixed groups and I always had more trouble on average dealing with other women then men. With men most of the time they just want to work, some chit chat, and just focus on what they're doing, whereas so many women get off-topic, sabotage and backstab people, miss work due to child issues, women issues, baby daddy issues...it's ridiculous! And god forbid you are a woman in a female-dominated environment and you don't want to be a part of their "clique" you'll quickly become a target.
I much prefer working with/for men then women, sorry but it's the truth. Where are all you women hanging out with all these supposedly "bad men"? From my experience you're either greatly exaggerating or misunderstanding. Most guys are fun to hang out with and will accept you so long as you don't act all mean/whiny/entitled "me feminist hear me roar!" type which a lot of women end up acting like.
queue "OMG I never do anything wrong, I do everything so much better than any of these horrid sexist men, you have internalised misogny!"*
This post is just sad on so many levels.
How many different office workplaces can you possibly have gone through by age 24?
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