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For those complaining about this: Have you actually lived and/or worked in a non-English speaking country before?
I have, and it can be REALLY isolating working in a place where you are not a native speaker of the "main" language (in my case it was Italian). Even though I could speak and communicate, it was really nice to meet other Americans/Canadians/Brits/Australians/etc and we could converse in English. It just felt comfortable. It doesn't matter how many languages you speak, your native language is - and will be - your comfort zone.
The problem here is that very few Americans leave the country and therefore impose unrealistic expectations upon the rest of the world in order to compensate for their own ignorance. Put yourselves in the shoes of those you complain about, and I guarantee it will open up new opportunities to view others and the world around you.
All any American has to do is spend a year in New York City, and they can find themselves exposed to practically every language spoken on the planet.
The great thing about working abroad is exposure to a language you studied. If I studied Spanish, it is a good idea to go live in a Spanish speaking country for at least a year to become truly fluent in Spanish, as an example.
When you were in Italy, did you expect every Italian you did business with to speak English for you? Would you be called a complainer if you had needed someone to translate a transaction for you? Did you eventually lose your job due to an aversion to conducting business in Italian?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy
I see that you are misunderstanding why books on English are written despite English not being the official language. Most people in the USA do speak English. Most books are in English, most newspapers, websites, and so on. Most businesses are run in English. No one has said otherwise. HOWEVER, English is not the official language in the USA. It’s not the only language spoken. In some areas, it’s not even the most common language spoken. Since there’s no rule that all Americans must speak only English, it’s not “un-American” to speak a different language.
I see that some people are misunderstanding that they are posting on a thread located in the Work and Employment section of the forum. I don't think anyone cares what language anyone else speaks outside of their workplace.
Last edited by ComeCloser; 02-10-2018 at 03:26 PM..
they learned english... they use it for official work
you are trying to regulate what they do in their free time, how is speaking another language different than if they watched youtube or had music on instead?
Do you understand "free time" to mean coffee breaks outside the office, lunch time spent outside the office, weekends, holidays, before and after work?
So if we moved to Mexico or Brazil, or Germany, or China, or take your pick, would it be right for us to speak English or learn their language? Why does this even have to be an issue? If you move to a country to live, you should speak the language of that country. To do otherwise is rude.
This IS an issue in some countries, where you are required to learn the native language to become a resident.
So if we moved to Mexico or Brazil, or Germany, or China, or take your pick, would it be right for us to speak English or learn their language? Why does this even have to be an issue? If you move to a country to live, you should speak the language of that country. To do otherwise is rude.
Another point. Were you to move to some other country, whether you learned their language, or not, you would take a delight in the opportunity to speak with other English-speaking folks when the opportunity arose. and you would find that when you're having a private conversation with those people than none of the native speakers would really care.
Another point. Were you to move to some other country, whether you learned their language, or not, you would take a delight in the opportunity to speak with other English-speaking folks when the opportunity arose. and you would find that when you're having a private conversation with those people than none of the native speakers would really care.
Another point. Were I to stay in America, whether I learned another language or not, I wouldn't care if my neighbors barbequed chicken in their backyard while conversing and singing in Spanish privately.
I'm not sure my employer would feel the same way if this private barbeque and conversation were going on in the parking lot of my workplace.
When you were in Italy, did you expect every Italian you did business with to speak English for you? Would you be called a complainer if you had needed someone to translate a transaction for you? Did you eventually lose your job due to an aversion to conducting business in Italian?
No, definitely not, but the funny thing is that in the beginning (when I was struggling to become conversational in Italian) the Italian coworkers and even random people I met in shops bent over backwards to make sure I could understand everything, even making an effort to fill the gaps with the English phrases they knew. Generally they were just really appreciative I was trying to speak Italian. At the same time, I did not expect them to converse with me in English!
When non-Americans visit us, do we attempt to converse with them in their native language even though we have no obligation to do so, or do we just belligerent demand: 'You're in America, speak American!' Sadly, I think we have a reputation for the latter reaction. That's the reason for my original suggestion that more Americans should really try to travel or work in non-English speaking countries and experience how they are received as a visitor.
No, definitely not, but the funny thing is that in the beginning (when I was struggling to become conversational in Italian) the Italian coworkers and even random people I met in shops bent over backwards to make sure I could understand everything, even making an effort to fill the gaps with the English phrases they knew. Generally they were just really appreciative I was trying to speak Italian. At the same time, I did not expect them to converse with me in English!
When non-Americans visit us, do we attempt to converse with them in their native language even though we have no obligation to do so, or do we just belligerent demand: 'You're in America, speak American!' Sadly, I think we have a reputation for the latter reaction. That's the reason for my original suggestion that more Americans should really try to travel or work in non-English speaking countries and experience how they are received as a visitor.
I agree that people can be friendlier about it. And, I bet you will find a lot of Americans that will appreciate someone at least trying to communicate in English. Ive learned some Italian, Spanish and Russian to be able to be better at my job, and less of a burden on others when trying to get information.
What I do find annoying, and this - unlike this thread - has nothing to do with work, but on a daily basis I will have someone approach me talking away at me in Russian, and it has crossed my mind more than once - is it right to assume I speak Russian because you see a white person on a street in America?
Would it be right of me, seeing a white person on a street in Russia to assume they speak English?
And, perhaps they do speak English, but it doesn't fit into my thought process to assume they speak English.
All any American has to do is spend a year in New York City, and they can find themselves exposed to practically every language spoken on the planet.
The great thing about working abroad is exposure to a language you studied. If I studied Spanish, it is a good idea to go live in a Spanish speaking country for at least a year to become truly fluent in Spanish, as an example.
When you were in Italy, did you expect every Italian you did business with to speak English for you? Would you be called a complainer if you had needed someone to translate a transaction for you? Did you eventually lose your job due to an aversion to conducting business in Italian?
I see that some people are misunderstanding that they are posting on a thread located in the Work and Employment section of the forum. I don't think anyone cares what language anyone else speaks outside of their workplace.
My brother works in Germany, for a german company, and spends a lot of time speaking English at work.
And if a business hires people who speak a language other than English, then unless they have some policy about never speaking anything other than English, it’s irrelevant what anyone else thinks of it. I worked in an English-speaking dentists office, and two Portuguese women occasionally spoke Portuguese to each other. They also spoke it to patients who spoke Spanish or Portuguese. Go to Chinatown and see if all of the workers speak English to each other. Or go to miami. Or anywhere where there’s a number of peooole who speak other languages. Today I went to a produce store and two of the workers were speaking Russian to each other. It’s incorrect to assume that everyone in the USA speaks only English at work.
I agree that people can be friendlier about it. And, I bet you will find a lot of Americans that will appreciate someone at least trying to communicate in English. Ive learned some Italian, Spanish and Russian to be able to be better at my job, and less of a burden on others when trying to get information.
What I do find annoying, and this - unlike this thread - has nothing to do with work, but on a daily basis I will have someone approach me talking away at me in Russian, and it has crossed my mind more than once - is it right to assume I speak Russian because you see a white person on a street in America?
Would it be right of me, seeing a white person on a street in Russia to assume they speak English?
And, perhaps they do speak English, but it doesn't fit into my thought process to assume they speak English.
I would assume they speak Russian.
Do you live in an area where the majority speaks Russian? Occasionally someone will speak Russian to me here (there’s a decent sized population), and when I lived up north, someone might speak Portuguese to me. My husband has olive skin and black hair, so when we go to Miami, the workers usually speak Spanish to him. It’s not a problem. In Miami in particular, I expect it, because it’s a Spanish-speaking community. Here, I usually say, “I’m sorry?” and they switch to English. I don’t find it offensive.
My brother works in Germany, for a german company, and spends a lot of time speaking English at work.
And if a business hires people who speak a language other than English, then unless they have some policy about never speaking anything other than English, it’s irrelevant what anyone else thinks of it. I worked in an English-speaking dentists office, and two Portuguese women occasionally spoke Portuguese to each other. They also spoke it to patients who spoke Spanish or Portuguese. Go to Chinatown and see if all of the workers speak English to each other. Or go to miami. Or anywhere where there’s a number of peooole who speak other languages. Today I went to a produce store and two of the workers were speaking Russian to each other. It’s incorrect to assume that everyone in the USA speaks only English at work.
Yes you are correct. Private dentist's offices, mom and pop produce stores, etc. All speak whatever language they want, but you are incorrect to assume they serve as a gauge for what is acceptable business in an entire country.
I'm not sure why 2 Portuguese women would speak Portuguese to Spanish people, but cool, ya know, lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy
Do you live in an area where the majority speaks Russian? Occasionally someone will speak Russian to me here (there’s a decent sized population), and when I lived up north, someone might speak Portuguese to me. My husband has olive skin and black hair, so when we go to Miami, the workers usually speak Spanish to him. It’s not a problem. In Miami in particular, I expect it, because it’s a Spanish-speaking community. Here, I usually say, “I’m sorry?” and they switch to English. I don’t find it offensive.
At one time it was said my traditionally Italian/Jewish neighborhood was becoming Russian. It was a premature statement, as even though it is predominately Chinese now, there are still more Italians and Jews than Russians. That being said I still find it quite silly to assume any white person you see here is Russian. I don't mind being asked if I speak Russian, but I find it super silly to be treated like I MUST BE Russian. There are plenty of white people in this city, and the majority have never been Russian.
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