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Old 02-19-2018, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
7,311 posts, read 7,260,299 times
Reputation: 12858

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Left-handed View Post
Remember that time when I posted about the female temp complaining to our brand new female manager about me slamming things on my desk in an attempt to undermine and sabotage me (as she was attempting with other team members)? While the temp is no longer working for us, the complaint is still filed in some HR-management system. I am still not aware of what impact such a complaint on my record would potentially have for me down the road at this company. But to your point that "just because a woman complains about something doesn't mean that a man gets in trouble for it", I would argue that it is highly dependent on who they are complaining to and what authority they hold over you. My director had my back and ultimately let the temp go. But regardless, my spotless work record of over 10 years has now been someone tarnished over a frivolous and baseless complaint.
I do remember that post.

My recollection is that it had little to do with gender, and more a temp trying anything to work her way into a FT job.

Letís look at this realistically. We are all going to receive complaints once in a while. You havenít suffered any negative impact, and anybody looking at this, particularly if you or your director included a rebuttal, is going to see that it had no merit.

Similar things have happened to me before. None of them have resulted in anything more than an annoying meeting with HR where I have had to write my statement and move on.
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:46 AM
 
2,245 posts, read 755,990 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
I do remember that post.

My recollection is that it had little to do with gender, and more a temp trying anything to work her way into a FT job.

Let’s look at this realistically. We are all going to receive complaints once in a while. You haven’t suffered any negative impact, and anybody looking at this, particularly if you or your director included a rebuttal, is going to see that it had no merit.

Similar things have happened to me before. None of them have resulted in anything more than an annoying meeting with HR where I have had to write my statement and move on.
You're correct. It wasn't about gender, or at least I didn't perceive it being that way at the time. Although I can't help to think that the new manager had far more empathy for the "upset" female temp than if I were to have made the same complaint against one of my female co-workers. We can't negate the fact that we (men) generally have an imposing physical advantage over women and have to consider how that may be perceived by women versus men feeling threatened.

Just a few weeks after that incident, I was on another floor speaking to a male co-worker and the female co-worker in the cubicle over was slamming things on her desk for one reason or another. Neither of us even considered it a threat or provocation to report it to management/HR.

Anyway, I agree with you that this will happen from time to time. My director even shared an encounter that he had had in his past, where a consultant reported him because he elevated his voice apparently during a discussion. In his case, it seemingly had no bearing on his career, and I would think it is the same for me.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:00 AM
 
Location: NW San Antonio
2,757 posts, read 8,237,009 times
Reputation: 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
Any reasonable person following up on this complaint would find it to be without merit.

Just because a woman complains about something doesn’t mean that a man gets in trouble for it. We have a hstory of disregarding women’s claims about assault, why do you think that a claim that you had wandering eyes because you don’t like ties would be taken seriously.

There are stupid complaints and valid ones. The trick is in telling them apart. We shouldn’t automatically believe, or disbelieve, everything a person says.
You would think so, but in corporate america, anytime a complaint, valid or not, is brought forth, it has to be investigated and dealt with. I had to go to HR, with my supervisor, then take a video lesson on harrassment in the workplace. Their philosophy, better safe than sorry. Even tho yes, both HR director and my boss told me, we find her complaint groundless and without merit, however..... if she felt uncomfortable........
Even tho, I didn't speak to her, or even while she was in the building. The lady I was talking to about disliking wearing a tie, didn't blink an eye.
And yes, the recounting of the incident was verbatim, as well as the outcome.
Best definition of harrassment:: Whatever the other person deems it to be! Sorry to say that too many women in the workplace use this vague description to cause drama and get ahead in their jobs.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:04 AM
 
306 posts, read 96,473 times
Reputation: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinsativ View Post
You would think so, but in corporate america, anytime a complaint, valid or not, is brought forth, it has to be investigated and dealt with. I had to go to HR, with my supervisor, then take a video lesson on harrassment in the workplace. Their philosophy, better safe than sorry. Even tho yes, both HR director and my boss told me, we find her complaint groundless and without merit, however..... if she felt uncomfortable........
Even tho, I didn't speak to her, or even while she was in the building. The lady I was talking to about disliking wearing a tie, didn't blink an eye.
And yes, the recounting of the incident was verbatim, as well as the outcome.
Best definition of harrassment:: Whatever the other person deems it to be! Sorry to say that too many women in the workplace use this vague description to cause drama and get ahead in their jobs.
And they don't just do it to men, they do it to their fellow females too. I've seen it too many times even though I haven't been on the receiving end of it. And I am a woman, but I have observed way too many sensitive women in my career and think to myself, "Suck it up, buttercup."
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:55 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,400 posts, read 30,578,833 times
Reputation: 26201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left-handed View Post
You're correct. It wasn't about gender, or at least I didn't perceive it being that way at the time. Although I can't help to think that the new manager had far more empathy for the "upset" female temp than if I were to have made the same complaint against one of my female co-workers. We can't negate the fact that we (men) generally have an imposing physical advantage over women and have to consider how that may be perceived by women versus men feeling threatened.

Just a few weeks after that incident, I was on another floor speaking to a male co-worker and the female co-worker in the cubicle over was slamming things on her desk for one reason or another. Neither of us even considered it a threat or provocation to report it to management/HR.

Anyway, I agree with you that this will happen from time to time. My director even shared an encounter that he had had in his past, where a consultant reported him because he elevated his voice apparently during a discussion. In his case, it seemingly had no bearing on his career, and I would think it is the same for me.
I was reported by a male colleague for "pounding on a wall" during a meeting. (I'm female.)


Here's what really happened.


The wall was covered in white board paint and I had drawn a data diagram on it. As I was explaining how data moved from here to here to here and how it all related, I would touch the wall with the side of my hand...not pounding, just emphasizing. I wasn't speaking in an angry tone of voice and I wasn't yelling.


This south Asian male claimed he felt "intimidated" by me "pounding on the wall." I had to ask another person who was at the meeting to explain to my boss that that wasn't what happened at all. She did, but my boss didn't believe it and continuously accused me of having a temper. He wasn't in the room to see any of it and he usually took my male colleagues' word for anything over my own.


It was then that I began recording every meeting. I also tried to schedule meetings in meeting rooms with lots of glass so people could see into them as they walked past, and I always tried to include an "ally" who knew I wasn't a hothead.


My behavior and tone of voice didn't change when I started recording, but guess what did change? Those south Asian males complaining about me...because they knew I was recording and they knew they'd look ridiculous if they complained.


True story.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:06 PM
 
10,059 posts, read 7,161,621 times
Reputation: 17518
BigDGeek, that's just too much. Wimpy little guy intimidated by the big scary alpha female. I'd have opened up a can of .... sorry. Redneck throwback.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:06 PM
 
2,245 posts, read 755,990 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
I was reported by a male colleague for "pounding on a wall" during a meeting. (I'm female.)


Here's what really happened.


The wall was covered in white board paint and I had drawn a data diagram on it. As I was explaining how data moved from here to here to here and how it all related, I would touch the wall with the side of my hand...not pounding, just emphasizing. I wasn't speaking in an angry tone of voice and I wasn't yelling.


This south Asian male claimed he felt "intimidated" by me "pounding on the wall." I had to ask another person who was at the meeting to explain to my boss that that wasn't what happened at all. She did, but my boss didn't believe it and continuously accused me of having a temper. He wasn't in the room to see any of it and he usually took my male colleagues' word for anything over my own.


It was then that I began recording every meeting. I also tried to schedule meetings in meeting rooms with lots of glass so people could see into them as they walked past, and I always tried to include an "ally" who knew I wasn't a hothead.


My behavior and tone of voice didn't change when I started recording, but guess what did change? Those south Asian males complaining about me...because they knew I was recording and they knew they'd look ridiculous if they complained.


True story.
I think that some people believe that reporting others to management for perceived misbehavior makes them look good. When in reality, a good and experienced manager should see right through the BS.

The temp in my situation had been trying to throw other people on our team under the bus before my incident. She also claimed to have witnessed me throwing my phone on the desk, which never even happened. And additionally, there is a nearly six foot cubicle wall that separates my area from hers, so she has zero visibility of me unless she's sitting or standing in my area. The bottom line is that she was nuts. On her last day, she was verbally attacking our director to the entire team, claiming that he was treating her unfairly for not renewing her contract.

I'm so glad that she is no longer in the organization. I have never dealt with some much personal drama at a place of business.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:11 PM
 
306 posts, read 96,473 times
Reputation: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left-handed View Post
I think that some people believe that reporting others to management for perceived misbehavior makes them look good. When in reality, a good and experienced manager should see right through the BS.

The temp in my situation had been trying to throw other people on our team under the bus before my incident. She also claimed to have witnessed me throwing my phone on the desk, which never even happened. And additionally, there is a nearly six foot cubicle wall that separates my area from hers, so she has zero visibility of me unless she's sitting or standing in my area. The bottom line is that she was nuts. On her last day, she was verbally attacking our director to the entire team, claiming that he was treating her unfairly for not renewing her contract.

I'm so glad that she is no longer in the organization. I have never dealt with some much personal drama at a place of business.
Was the temp hired through an agency or did your company just hire her as a temp on their own? Because if she were with an agency, the agency should have been dealing with her complaints. Also, I would have called the agency to complain about this temp and tell them that you never ever want her back.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:17 PM
 
2,245 posts, read 755,990 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flexy633 View Post
Was the temp hired through an agency or did your company just hire her as a temp on their own? Because if she were with an agency, the agency should have been dealing with her complaints. Also, I would have called the agency to complain about this temp and tell them that you never ever want her back.
It was through a temp agency. It really wasn't up to me how to deal with her, but my director, who hastily hired her for the position instead of properly vetting a good candidate for our team. (Side note: my director is pretty lousy, outside of a couple of occasions of standing up for me; so it isn't unusual of him to avoid making a tough decision like this). He told me that he wanted to let her contract run out and not rock the boat in order to preclude her from coming back at us with some kind of harassment or retaliation accusation.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:23 PM
 
306 posts, read 96,473 times
Reputation: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left-handed View Post
It was through a temp agency. It really wasn't up to me how to deal with her, but my director, who hastily hired her for the position instead of properly vetting a good candidate for our team. (Side note: my director is pretty lousy, outside of a couple of occasions of standing up for me; so it isn't unusual of him to avoid making a tough decision like this). He told me that he wanted to let her contract run out and not rock the boat in order to preclude her from coming back at us with some kind of harassment or retaliation accusation.
Wow. Most companies will just call the agency and say, "We don't want this temp, she is causing all kinds of drama here." Agencies act as if they will side with the temp, but they always side with their client company. Guess you guys won't be using that agency again to hire a temp.
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