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See my post directly above yours. No, the solution is not simple. As I mentioned, an unskilled employee cannot just "find a better job." And an unskilled employee cannot live on not enough money while they work three or four more years at their crap job in an attempt to move up the ranks. Creditors won't wait that long. And when they have no money, they can't move out of the state either. But when you're a C-D poster at home typing on your computer in the comfort of your living room, the solution is very simple.
Actually, the solution IS simple. If you don’t have a lot of money, life won’t be as pleasant as if you HAD a lot of money. That’s gonna suck. If you can’t or won’t take steps to change those circumstances, then life will continue to suck. But none of that creates an obligation on the part of others to provide you with the lifestyle that you believe you deserve.
Actually, the solution IS simple. If you don’t have a lot of money, life won’t be as pleasant as if you HAD a lot of money. That’s gonna suck. If you can’t or won’t take steps to change those circumstances, then life will continue to suck. But none of that creates an obligation on the part of others to provide you with the lifestyle that you believe you deserve.
Very true. Sadly people don't migrate enough in this country of opportunity.
You must be using the word "thought" in a manner inconsistent with its actual meaning. The correct characterization is "rationalize" - "attempt to explain or justify (one's own or another's behavior or attitude) with logical, plausible reasons, even if these are not true or appropriate." This goes back to the first time a barbarian king swore to accept Jesus Christ as his savior and then turned around and engaged in behavior contrary to Jesus' words. (And this is not specific to Christianity; I'm sure someone could come up with analogs with regard to other belief systems that espouse things similar to Deuteronomy 15:10-11, Proverbs 22:22-23, 1 Corinthians 10: 23-24, Luke 14:13, 1 John 3:17, etc., and some king who extolled the virtues of such beliefs and values and then turned around and betrayed that promise.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye
We do not live in a Country with mandatory slave labor.
Slavery isn't gone from our nation; it's just changed form. A couple of us have already outlined that reality for you. The fact that your comments don't show that you've internalized that probably means that you won't, and that the discussion is therefore at an impasse, you doggedly holding to that rationalization for the unjust behavior of society that presumably benefits you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye
As far as immigration and red herrings; countries have to place the prosperity of their own citizens and those legally in their country first over the wishes of the world.
I referred to it as a red herring because it has so little impact as compared to automation and off-shoring. It's like mentioning the impact of a box fan in a tornado.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye
We do not vote for politicians that don't represent our wishes. As was recently said: Americans are Dreamers too!
Some Americans solely wish for their own personal benefit. Other Americans wish for a better society, with liberty and justice for all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia
Society does NOT owe anyone else the means to accomodate their choices.
No one said that. The fact that you're arguing against something no one said instead of responding to the comment that you quoted is very telling: You apparently realize that you don't have a legitimate rebuttal to what I wrote, so you're trying to make it look like you have something substantial to offer in response.
Here is what I actually did say. How about taking a second try at responding to what I actually wrote?
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Originally Posted by bUU
It has to do with society's responsibility to its members, i.e., to provide the opportunity for every worker to be able to pay their own way and secure their own future. It is easy to dispense with concern about such things when you have been blessed, as you and I evidently have, with privileges of birth and luck, but immoral to do so.
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Originally Posted by oceangaia
I'm not wasting any more time on this because it's a fact of life you are never going to get your way and this society is never going to act according to your whacked ideals.
And the fact that you're running away from the discussion after having argued against something no one said is also very telling. The moral perspective isn't going away just because the pendulum has temporarily swung back toward self-interest. I don't know how young or old you are, but I've been following our nation's politics long enough to see both Carter (pendulum swung far to the left of my perspective) and Reagan (pendulum swung far to the right of my perspective) elected. If you don't think that this ridiculously extreme pendulum swing toward personal greed isn't going to be followed by a pendulum swing toward social conscience (even to the far left of the morality-grounded perspective I've outlined), then you really don't understand our society's history.
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Originally Posted by TaxPhd
Wow! This post hit the trifecta of SJW drivel, big governmenment statism, and “Economics is for chumps!”
Your post hits the trifecta of vapid non-information, self-centered and self-ratified denial, and desperate defense of immoral behavior by society. How about instead of posting such nonsensically pointless comments, we stick to the topic and actually post worthwhile defenses of our respective perspectives? A couple of your colleagues who agree with your perspective overall have managed to constrain their comments to mature and substantive contributions. I am sure if you try hard enough you can as well.
You must be using the word "thought" in a manner inconsistent with its actual meaning. The correct characterization is "rationalize" - "attempt to explain or justify (one's own or another's behavior or attitude) with logical, plausible reasons, even if these are not true or appropriate." This goes back to the first time a barbarian king swore to accept Jesus Christ as his savior and then turned around and engaged in behavior contrary to Jesus' words. (And this is not specific to Christianity; I'm sure someone could come up with analogs with regard to other belief systems that espouse things similar to Deuteronomy 15:10-11, Proverbs 22:22-23, 1 Corinthians 10: 23-24, Luke 14:13, 1 John 3:17, etc., and some king who extolled the virtues of such beliefs and values and then turned around and betrayed that promise.)
What are you quoting scripture to an atheist for? I am talking supply and demand and you want to walk the garden path. Here; maybe this will help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
Slavery isn't gone from our nation; it's just changed form. A couple of us have already outlined that reality for you. The fact that your comments don't show that you've internalized that probably means that you won't, and that the discussion is therefore at an impasse, you doggedly holding to that rationalization for the unjust behavior of society that presumably benefits you.
Nobody is physically chained to any job. Nor is any employer obliged to provide everything all employees desire - it simply is not possible. Companies/corporations have to stay in business otherwise there would be no jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
I referred to it as a red herring because it has so little impact as compared to automation and off-shoring. It's like mentioning the impact of a box fan in a tornado.
If this has so little impact; why does the left always want more? This is what happens when we open up our pocket books to help one of our local companies retool: 81 suspected illegal workers arrested in Pa. - US news - Crime & courts | NBC News. Those 81 illegal immigrants took the jobs that my community spent millions to ensure we had jobs for our unemployed. Yes, that was back in 2007; but it happens all the time and all over America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
Some Americans solely wish for their own personal benefit. Other Americans wish for a better society, with liberty and justice for all.
This is where you take your definition too far. Liberty and justice for all does not apply to the whole world. American taxpayers never agreed to those terms! We do not mind leading by example; but paying for all is taking this argument to another level.
You must be using the word "thought" in a manner inconsistent with its actual meaning. The correct characterization is "rationalize" - "attempt to explain or justify (one's own or another's behavior or attitude) with logical, plausible reasons, even if these are not true or appropriate." This goes back to the first time a barbarian king swore to accept Jesus Christ as his savior and then turned around and engaged in behavior contrary to Jesus' words. (And this is not specific to Christianity; I'm sure someone could come up with analogs with regard to other belief systems that espouse things similar to Deuteronomy 15:10-11, Proverbs 22:22-23, 1 Corinthians 10: 23-24, Luke 14:13, 1 John 3:17, etc., and some king who extolled the virtues of such beliefs and values and then turned around and betrayed that promise.)
Slavery isn't gone from our nation; it's just changed form. A couple of us have already outlined that reality for you. The fact that your comments don't show that you've internalized that probably means that you won't, and that the discussion is therefore at an impasse, you doggedly holding to that rationalization for the unjust behavior of society that presumably benefits you.
I referred to it as a red herring because it has so little impact as compared to automation and off-shoring. It's like mentioning the impact of a box fan in a tornado.
Some Americans solely wish for their own personal benefit. Other Americans wish for a better society, with liberty and justice for all.
No one said that. The fact that you're arguing against something no one said instead of responding to the comment that you quoted is very telling: You apparently realize that you don't have a legitimate rebuttal to what I wrote, so you're trying to make it look like you have something substantial to offer in response.
Here is what I actually did say. How about taking a second try at responding to what I actually wrote?And the fact that you're running away from the discussion after having argued against something no one said is also very telling. The moral perspective isn't going away just because the pendulum has temporarily swung back toward self-interest. I don't know how young or old you are, but I've been following our nation's politics long enough to see both Carter (pendulum swung far to the left of my perspective) and Reagan (pendulum swung far to the right of my perspective) elected. If you don't think that this ridiculously extreme pendulum swing toward personal greed isn't going to be followed by a pendulum swing toward social conscience (even to the far left of the morality-grounded perspective I've outlined), then you really don't understand our society's history.
Your post hits the trifecta of vapid non-information, self-centered and self-ratified denial, and desperate defense of immoral behavior by society. How about instead of posting such nonsensically pointless comments, we stick to the topic and actually post worthwhile defenses of our respective perspectives? A couple of your colleagues who agree with your perspective overall have managed to constrain their comments to mature and substantive contributions. I am sure if you try hard enough you can as well.
So what are examples of how live your life of economic morality?
So you're reduced to quibbling over providing the means or the opportunity? Guess what, society already provides everyone the opportunity. So you must mean something more than just opportunity.
Not running away, just know that we don't have to convince you because your whacked ideas are not an option.
A related problem is housing and transportation costs can easily take up 80% of someone’s take home pay. You can’t get rid of your car to save money because jobs, work sites etc aren’t served by any alternatives. We need to solve the hosing and transportation problems so people have more $$$.
A related problem is housing and transportation costs can easily take up 80% of someone’s take home pay. You can’t get rid of your car to save money because jobs, work sites etc aren’t served by any alternatives. We need to solve the housing and transportation problems so people have more $$$.
Maybe we need to shutter Disneyland? Why do people take a job there knowing that they won't earn enough to survive? Maybe they need to realize that there's choices to be made. Raise the cost of admission so they choke off revenue, or set off an area for the workers to have "In Place" housing as a employment benefit (Saves transportation costs!)
Looking at the place with Google maps, they should shut down one area that has limited profit and rebuild it with cheap rooms in mind which provide basic living for the workers.
When Americans decide to vote with their wallet. Instead of going to the Walmart supercenter, go to the unionized grocery chain and be willing to fork up a little more money. People aren't going to do that though. Everyone wants dirt cheap, but don't realize what effect that has on everything.
Ironic isn't it, the people who are doing that are the ones getting government subsidies because they can't afford to make the choices you're purposing. It's a bad cycle.
Ironic isn't it, the people who are doing that are the ones getting government subsidies because they can't afford to make the choices you're purposing. It's a bad cycle.
I wish I had seen that post you quoted. I frequently shop at a unionized Kroger. Does it make a difference? I have no idea. I often try to buy Union Made, USA Made, USA Assembled in that order as often as possible.
For the most part, I don't often donate directly to charity, I'd rather support a decent paying job.
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