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Good point -- are these five different jobs at different employers? That would be an absolute NO for me. I wouldn't even consider someone who had three different employers in five years.
The ideal candidate is someone mid-career, with 5 to 10 years at a sequence of three or four employers, moving up the food chain within each employer and also moving up between employers.
-I had a job for a year. Laid-off.
-I had another job for a year and a half. Laid-off.
-Got another job and stayed there about three years. Could no longer take the commute and wanted to do an internal transfer. Nothing was coming up. So I left, regrettably.
-New job I only stayed at five or six months. Was not being paid the correct salary. Was lied to about my training. And the place sucked---would you stay? These people technically still owe me retro pay and this is a huge organization that is very well known.
-Was poached from my previous employer (thanks to a good reputation as an employee) at a location that finally had an opening (the one I wanted to do an internal transfer for) so I went back. I've been there about a year now. They asked me if I wanted to apply to a supervisory position but I just can't at this time.
Now in the meantime, I acquired two other jobs (I have three right now, shoot me) and I actually just resigned from one after about three months. Why? Again, lied to about training and scheduling. The commute is also worse than expected. And they are begging me to stay because people like me and because I am a good worker. It's a two-way street---if you're that desperate for good people, don't lie to them. I'll take my knowledge and license and go elsewhere.
My thought is that someone in my field needs a 3 to 5 year time frame sitting in a position. Anything less than that will not look good. My preference is with someone spending at least 5 years working for an employer. If they moved up at that employer and they were still involved with the decisions that they made then great. If they moved up by changing employers then the 3 to 5 year rule applies.
What if this person was either laid off due to a business reorganization or left due to a family reason before 3-5 years? How about if they were in a toxic workplace with bad management?
5 years in today’s market is a long time. Once it was common and should be expected, as the employer invested in training and their employees’ well being. Now people are generally considered to be replaceable parts in a machine.
I don’t disagree with your thought process, but if someone has a great track record but it didn’t work out at the most recent employer after 2 years you would look at it as a negative while I wouldn’t.
It's a two-way street---if you're that desperate for good people, don't lie to them. I'll take my knowledge and license and go elsewhere.
The problem is that these employers can’t or won’t pay the going rate in a strong economy and are resorting to lies to get good people. In 2009 this tactic worked as the unemployment rate was 10%. It doesn’t work when it’s 4%.
I would not hire her even if she had a great resume and could show that her job changes were moving her forward in her career.
We had a guy that had been at 12 hospitals in 14 years. We hired him, or a VP hired him. we were stuck with him for over a year. The reason he got the job was he could show movement up the ranks. He started in facilities, changed jobs for a lead position, then a supervisor position, then a manager position, then multiple Director positions at larger hospitals. Eventually he showed up at our place.
He had no experience in completing projects. He knew how to start them though. When he left we ended up fixing problems that he caused.
My thought is that someone in my field needs a 3 to 5 year time frame sitting in a position. Anything less than that will not look good. My preference is with someone spending at least 5 years working for an employer. If they moved up at that employer and they were still involved with the decisions that they made then great. If they moved up by changing employers then the 3 to 5 year rule applies.
Good observation. I've known one of these high-end-hoppers also. Impressive titles, but switches roles far too often. After a couple of years, "ages out" of the employer completely. You always wonder what really happened, and mostly it's going to be something negative.
Great point. Most recent grads don’t really know what they want to do, and most entry level jobs don’t allow for a lot of promotional opportunities. Jumping about a bit is normal, expected, and not a big deal.
It is different for a mid-career professional, again, depending on field.
What is the bolded based on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by annabanana123
Probably wouldn’t even get to the interview honestly. It takes a full year to train someone up to speed and even then 2-3 to be fully self sufficient in my field. I would consider her a flight risk.
This.
Whoever asked why her age is relevant, I think it is. She's a little older than I am, and we are old enough to still value longevity with an employer. To me, a 48 year old job hopper is a bigger red flag than a 28 year old job hopper.
What if this person was either laid off due to a business reorganization or left due to a family reason before 3-5 years? How about if they were in a toxic workplace with bad management?
5 years in today’s market is a long time. Once it was common and should be expected, as the employer invested in training and their employees’ well being. Now people are generally considered to be replaceable parts in a machine.
I don’t disagree with your thought process, but if someone has a great track record but it didn’t work out at the most recent employer after 2 years you would look at it as a negative while I wouldn’t.
Especially for someone who is young, two years should be enough for your management to evaluate you and for you to evaluate the organization. If it looks like you're going nowhere after two years, I think one should then begin to look at other opportunities, unless they are fine with the current role for an extended period.
What if this person was either laid off due to a business reorganization or left due to a family reason before 3-5 years? How about if they were in a toxic workplace with bad management?
5 years in today’s market is a long time. Once it was common and should be expected, as the employer invested in training and their employees’ well being. Now people are generally considered to be replaceable parts in a machine.
I don’t disagree with your thought process, but if someone has a great track record but it didn’t work out at the most recent employer after 2 years you would look at it as a negative while I wouldn’t.
In many cases, the employer does not want to retain people in the same role that long either. Up or out mentality.
One of my former employers was a software company. The senior manager in our managed services division always reiterated that more than five years in a role with no advancement or moving between companies is a sign of stagnation and getting set in your ways. Long tenure was not part of the corporate culture there. A high degree of churn and frequent turnover is the expectation, and even desirable, in that industry.
Sometimes management is the problem. My immediate previous employer was in the IT department of a bank. I was hired for a role and put in an impossible position. It took about four months before I was on a PIP and on my way out. When I turned in my notice, another IT team member in another department turned in her notice, and she mentioned the last guy in the role got the same treatment. They hired someone else for the role, and back in the fall, he sent me a message "wanting to talk about his experience at this employer." It turns out he went through the same thing. At this organization, management is firing too quickly.
One of my former employers was a software company. The senior manager in our managed services division always reiterated that more than five years in a role with no advancement or moving between companies is a sign of stagnation and getting set in your ways. .
I agree with this. To me, people who have worked at the same company, in the same role, for many years do not have the same flexibility that someone with more previous jobs has.
Also, some people remain with the same company for years, not out of loyalty, but out of comfort, security and no willingness to take risks or chances.
I agree with this. To me, people who have worked at the same company, in the same role, for many years do not have the same flexibility that someone with more previous jobs has.
Also, some people remain with the same company for years, not out of loyalty, but out of comfort, security and no willingness to take risks or chances.
I agree with all of this. My buddy's girlfriend complained about being underpaid. She was making half of what I made for the same job. She stayed with the same employer for 8 years out of college. As expected, she was still at a jr developer's salary of $55k. She only got raises for 2-3% a year and great reviews. There is nobody still there from 8 years ago.
She asked for a referral to my employer. I turned in her resume. She got passed the HR screen with flying colors. They called her back to schedule an interview my hiring manager.
She lied. She said the recruiter never called and she lost their number. I gave her the number to the recruiter. My boss said she never call. The salary was $100k for the same job that she had. Flex time, work from home options, no crazy hours, etc.
What a waste of my time. I had some egg on my face with my supervisor. She sent a LinkedIn connection request, after a year. I refused her request. I will not come out on a limb again.
Who stays in a jr role for 8 years? SMH
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