Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
[quote=Lekrii;51645286]Job hoppers tend to take less initiate, not more. They know they will just bail on a company when times get tough, so they have no incentive to make things better with a long term perspective. [ /quote]
This is valid I think. Though or my career, it's necessary to make things better. But there is a point where many decisions that would make things better are out of your hands unfortunately. For me, what lead me to leave my current job was the senior management, and how many dumb decisions they made. While I did everything to improve my own little space. At a point you know that the company just needs a complete managerial overhaul.
Quote:
They also are more mediocre, not less. They don't have to stick it out, as soon as it is found out that they aren't as good as they claimed in interviews, they leave for a new gig.
Now I feel this is hyperbole. It may depend on your industry. But most job hoppers avoid mediocrity like the plague. Most of them are really into self development. But again, they won't stick it out with negative environments especially when they don't have to. But why should they or anyone for that matter?
Job hopping has been valuable to me in terms of pay and experience. However, I dream of the day that I want to call a job mine for an extended period of time. Reasons why I’ve left include: employer instability, low pay (starting out especially), minimal opportunity for growth, and stress. I’ve never willingly left a job that paid well and offered ample opportunity for growth and learning, or allowed me to put my skills and experience to use. There has always generally been external factors, out of my control, that have encouraged me to seek work elsewhere. It’s never been based on poor performance, getting along with team members (because many are friends outside of work, even years after I leave), or other factors that I am solely to blame for.
I like this board, because there are a diverse set of opinions about what "good" and "bad" looks like in terms of being a good employee, being a good employer, what a good job is all about, and what bad jobs are all about. But I've found that there is sometimes a reocurring them about job hopping, and some people feel it's actually a bad thing. And while I do think the idea of a serial job hopper being a bad thing actually is a sensible position. I do think we have to look at it beyond the surface.
Me myself, I've jump jobs several times. Outside of a few crappy situations, majority of the time it's been voluntarily. I think jumping jobs has helped my career, my "Corporate IQ", my maturity as a professional, and my ability to adapt. This week is my last week at my current position, and I'm going to a new job. But after 2 years with my company, I had the pleasure of working with guys who are not job hoppers. And the difference is night and day.
Job Hoppers don't remain in toxic corporate cultures
Because we work more hours, we're expected to churn out more productivity than average. I think our viewpoints about what a job is needs some readjustment. For one, a job is like a marriage, or even a relationship. You as an employee has a relationship with your company. you have to go to a job with standards and integrity.
what I've found from non-job hoppers is that there is a sense of "going down with the ship". But there is also a somewhat irrational respect for hierarchy, even if that hierarchy is bad. That means following stupid instructions. And I've found that many of my on job hopping colleagues have the mentality. The entire "beyond our pay pay grade" becomes the model. And we're just cogs on a wheel.
But the thing is, the mentality of being a cog in the wheel doesn't scale well. Most companies, especially ones that have been successful in the last 20 years like the idea of ownership and integrity. With all of the coporate scandals we've seen in the past 30 years. The command-and-control models is typically not a good characteristic for your career.
I think job hoppers in many case do have a sense of ownership. And they also know that reputation matters more than appeasing whomever happens to be sitting at the throne of your corporate ladder. Hence job hoppers leave toxic cultures.
Job hoppers take more initiative
For a job hopper, "being the new guy" is something that happens quite a bit. So doing a lot o the legwork to train yourself is common for "job hoppers". I've found that guys who have been on the job for 10-20 years, or have only had about 3 jobs tend to wait around to be trained. Now this is maybe an unfair generalization. But I have noticed that many "company men/women" tend to wait for a company to give you special training, or pay for your education. Where I feel a job hopper never gets invested enough to stick around for that, they take the time to learn on their own. I also feel because of this the job hopper becomes more of an expert where they think in terms of general best practices vs "the company way". This could be a good or bad thing. But I've found that job hoppers just have better initiative.
Job hoppers can't be intimidated
Again this is a VERY VERY important point. Because work cultures ruled by fear are dysfunctional. I don't think there are any exceptions to this rule. And rule by fear normally comes from the fact that you can't get employees onboard with a management style or practice because 9/10 it's completely non-nonsensical. Fear tactics are almost always employed by bad managers. And with that said negative and toxic behavior and practice feeds on itself with no voice of sanity or voice of reasons. I believe the only person who can be the voice of reason is the job hopper. Because they aren't afraid to play in the market, they probably are more willing to speak up for themselves. And even if speaking up may lead to the job hopper themselves losing their job, perhaps speaking good and positive business practice into existence breaks the momentum of toxicity in a workplace.
Job hoppers refuse to be mediocre
In my field, IT, mediocrity is not a luxury you can afford. The demand for higher skilled and talented engineers is greater and greater. So refusal to be mediocrity isn't just a lofty career goal, it's a survival tactic. with that said, I've seen many great professional rot away their talent at some silly corporate job where they aren't fully utilizing their skillset or intellect. And when you're not challenged regularly, you fall into an abyss of mediocrity. I find more jobs converge to a point of monotony and mediocrity than they present challenge. And from a business perspective this makes sense. I mean boring is good for most companies. So it's unnecessary to keep things interesting and challenging for its staff, because there isn't a business need. At some point in your career, your once exciting job is going to become dull and monotonous. It happens. Sometimes it take 3 years, sometimes it takes 10 years. But a job hopper refuses to be mediocre. Hence sometimes moves need to be made.
Job hopping may be the future of the job market
Let's just be honest with ourselves. Everyone is in business for themselves. Everyone has their own self interest. I find the idea of being part of an imaginary corporate family is falling out of favor. The reality is the longer you stick around, the more dead weight you are to a company. Companies are not shy about just cutting heads after a few years, because they need to reinvent themselves. And I think this is also the case with you as an employee. you need to reinvent yourself every few years as well. We have a market that continues to shift and change. So not retesting and re-engaging the market every few years can have disastrous long term effects of your career plans. Employers no longer care about employee retention. It's all about what have you done lately, not how long you held steady or stayed loyal to a single company. It's simply a characteristic that continues to matter less and less as we have ever more dynamic market.
While some of your points contain some validity, I think you’re missing a key factor. That being that you are looking out for you, while an employer must look out for what is best for the entire department or company. No employer has the luxury of catering to an individual at the expense of everyone else.
Your statement that “Employers no longer care about employee retention” could not be further from the truth. If I were to be handed your resume I would not waste my time interviewing you because you are going to cost me money. A lot of money. One look would tell me that you will not be committed for the long haul, so I will have spent thousands of dollars training you for naught.
Of course once a person gets to a COO or CEO level than it is expected that they will change jobs frequently. From your post I gather you are a long, long way from such a position. I wish you well in your job hopping career.
Now I feel this is hyperbole. It may depend on your industry. But most job hoppers avoid mediocrity like the plague. Most of them are really into self development. But again, they won't stick it out with negative environments especially when they don't have to. But why should they or anyone for that matter?
This has been especially true in my case. The people that stick around the longest, in the same roles, are usually referred to as Retired in Place. Most job hoppers I know are in constant pursuit of growth and development, not stagnation, which is what you generally get by sticking around long term doing the same tasks and projects year after year.
While some of your points contain some validity, I think you’re missing a key factor. That being that you are looking out for you, while an employer must look out for what is best for the entire department or company. No employer has the luxury of catering to an individual at the expense of everyone else.
Your statement that “Employers no longer care about employee retention” could not be further from the truth. If I were to be handed your resume I would not waste my time interviewing you because you are going to cost me money. A lot of money. One look would tell me that you will not be committed for the long haul, so I will have spent thousands of dollars training you for naught.
Of course once a person gets to a COO or CEO level than it is expected that they will change jobs frequently. From your post I gather you are a long, long way from such a position. I wish you well in your job hopping career.
You’re right in that the employer needs to look out for the department, not the individual. So what’s the problem if the individual takes the initiative to look out for his or herself? They are being proactive, not waiting for elusive opportunities that no employer can guarantee. I don’t understand people who paint this as a bad thing. Good on anyone who takes that sort of initiative.
Do better at employee retention practices and you won’t find yourself replacing people.
Job hopping usually only helps your career. It almost always results in higher salaries and better jobs, or why else would you be leaving? Most professionals I know change jobs in 5 years or less. Some average 2-3 years. If head hunters are calling you every day for better jobs, why not leave?
Because it makes management’s job difficult, and they want you to make their job easy. So that’s generally the reasons for the push back. Managers basically complaining that you make their jobs more difficult, because they have to put in effort to retain you.
Keep in mind, most of them don’t care about your development goals or earning goals. So it’s up to you to drive your own career forward.
Now I feel this is hyperbole. It may depend on your industry. But most job hoppers avoid mediocrity like the plague. Most of them are really into self development. But again, they won't stick it out with negative environments especially when they don't have to. But why should they or anyone for that matter?
Mediocre employees jump ship as soon as things get tough, instead of being good enough to be able to solve tough problems. As soon as a hard problem shows up, they leave instead of trying to solve it. They are only in it for themselves and create worse environments for companies as a whole.
High performing employees get together and work through tough times, and turn negative environments around into quality companies again. Mediocre to poor employees jump ship at the first sign of trouble. That's not about self-development. Self development would be developing the skills to work through those negative times and turn them around for the company. Job-hoppers are about immediate gratification and avoiding hard work.
Mediocre employees jump ship as soon as things get tough, instead of being good enough to be able to solve tough problems. As soon as a hard problem shows up, they leave instead of trying to solve it. They are only in it for themselves and create worse environments for companies as a whole.
High performing employees get together and work through tough times, and turn negative environments around into quality companies again. Mediocre to poor employees jump ship at the first sign of trouble. That's not about self-development. Self development would be developing the skills to work through those negative times and turn them around for the company. Job-hoppers are about immediate gratification and avoiding hard work.
Hmm not really. I’ve seen lots of super stars leave a company due to poor treatment and lack of opportunity.
Job hopping has negatives too - much more difficulty in securing medical benefits etc., saving for retirement, and also at some point all those jobs on your resume starts to look like a negative to potential employers and you start to get excluded from interviews, etc.
Hmm not really. I’ve seen lots of super stars leave a company due to poor treatment and lack of opportunity.
Most super stars try to find a resolution to poor treatment or lack of opportunity first. Most don't become serial job hoppers.
I should have put emphasis on "leave a company as soon as things get tough" in what I said.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
