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Part of the disadvantage of not being the boss is being at a tactical disadvantage of not being able to see everything that may have caused this to happen, even if you are being very observant.
I'm not saying that you don't deserve a raise, as you very well may, but lack of information can put you at a disadvantage in negotiating by missing a few key pieces of information, even when you think you are aware of everything.
Years ago, I was hired at the same time as another employee. We were a match in age, education, and experience. We were both recruited by the same VP and had the same network contacts.
A couple months into the job, we were discussing salaries and found out I was making about 15% more. He was stunned and wanted to know why I was being paid more. I told him "I asked for it".
He asked for X and got it.
I asked for X + 15% and got it.
This sounds like what I did over a decade ago.
I applied for position that was offering a range between X and X+25%. I asked for X+25% salary. They came back with X. I said that isn't enough (even though it was more than 50% more than I made at the time). But, I was employed still and wasn't needing the job. I figured another year on the job, maybe I could get that +25%.
That company couldn't find a suitable candidate. They came back with X+25%. I said great... now let's talk 4 weeks vacation...
Ran into a guy hired about 6 months after me. He took whatever they gave him, which was X-10%. I didn't ask his salary, but it sort of came out. I said nothing since there is nothing more demoralizing to someone than realizing you are doing nearly the same job for a lot less pay.
and? why do people think everything in life is equal?
No one said "everything in life is equal". When people raise Straw Men like that in a thread like this, it draws especial attention to what it is you might be trying to hide behind such bravado. What the OP is highlighting is that there is something that should be much closer to equal than it is currently. Like every injustice that has ever occurred in society, the mitigating of the injustice begins with a few people realizing it as in injustice, and goes from there.
A number of "reasons" have been given for why two people doing the same work equally well would get paid different amounts. Many of those "reasons" are not reasons at all but rather excuses akin the excuses that have been used to perpetuate other, more severe, injustices that have been addressed in the past. The defense for some of the "reasons" sound a lot like desperate attempts by an advocate to protect an unjust advantage from which they themselves benefit. That's not worth protecting. Other explanations are "reasons" and reasonable defenses for the disparity in pay. Those are worth protecting. The point is that defending the status quo is a questionable choice, because it presumes that perfection has been reached in this regard, when it is so clear to all by the most dogged deniers that there is more work to be done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan
if people don't like their pay, they can leave and find a job that pays them what they want.
People like us, who are extroverts, have capitalized on society's innate preferential treatment shown to us extroverts. One of the decisions a company, and society, both need to make is whether it is good to commit discrimination against introversion in employment, as is the general case in our society. "Although extraversion is perceived as socially desirable in Western culture, it is not always an advantage... introversion ... is strongly associated with positive traits such as intelligence..." [Furnham, Adrian; Forde, Liam; Cotter, Tim (1998). "Personality and intelligence". Personality and Individual Differences. 24 (2): 187–92.] When intelligence and fairness matter more than us extroverts protecting our own advantages, we can realize the failure inherent in expectations such as what you expressed.
lol. I have some team members who discussed salary amongst themselves and discovered one girl was making 50k and the guy was making 90k. The guy is about 5 years old and has been working longer but they do the same thing today. The girl is actually WAY more of a leader than he is. I was shocked he makes 90k.
lol. I have some team members who discussed salary amongst themselves and discovered one girl was making 50k and the guy was making 90k. The guy is about 5 years old and has been working longer but they do the same thing today. The girl is actually WAY more of a leader than he is. I was shocked he makes 90k.
I wouldn't jump immediately to gender discrimination in this case - and I'm not saying you did either.
If he has 5 years more experience, that is definitely playing a role in the salary indifference. For whatever it is worth, the difference in my salary from Year 2 to Year 6 was about 100%. Experience has value. As does negotiating skills.
Discussing this means you already know the other person's salary. That's kind of a no-no.
Where I worked, the salaries were public information and available on the website. We all knew how much one another made. In the private sector that would be different.
That right there is a huge aspect. If you negotiate a higher salary when you take the job, your raises are based on that salary going forward. Why would they pay you more than you were willing to accept the job for? And why would they suddenly give you a pay raise like...25% to bring you in line with someone else?
You'd have to work for that. Either get another job offer and use it as leverage (and be prepared to walk) or deal with making less money.
I think this is the one truth that any of us who ever accepted a low offer have to face. You will rarely see a big jump after you begin a job unless it involves a promotion. When I was at my first job and left the big joke was that all the firms in town had just coughed up x dollars plus training time and recruiting to basically pinball a half dozen young professionals around town because they wouldn't offer raises to their existing employees. It's always interesting to learn who remained at jobs because they had always been well paid and who remained at jobs when they didn't realize how much they were underpaid.
As to why someone would bring the employee in line- whenever someone learns they are underpaid by 25% or more there is an immediate problem. Rarely do they leave it behind- they either leave, remain but become disgruntled or question everything they are given.
Sometimes a pay disparity might be as simple as someone having a certification or ability the job does not always utilize but that would bring them more value on the market. So you pay them for that even if it does not get used.
I wouldn't jump immediately to gender discrimination in this case - and I'm not saying you did either.
If he has 5 years more experience, that is definitely playing a role in the salary indifference. For whatever it is worth, the difference in my salary from Year 2 to Year 6 was about 100%. Experience has value. As does negotiating skills.
see post #19.
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