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Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 5 days ago)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960
YouTube vids of the incident have comments added by residents who issued anti-stalking orders against this perp, as well as other waitstaff he grabbed.
I would hope they offer to testify at his trial.
It appears this is hardly a one-off.
Well why didn't they say that in the original article? You've got a guy who's done this multiple times and has antistalking orders against him, by other waitstaff yes, it's time to involve the cops and put a stop to this.
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
2,907 posts, read 2,068,439 times
Reputation: 4478
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
Are you implying that because other cultures have terrible attitudes towards women, even worse than ours, a bit of mild misogyny should be overlooked?
No. How can a smart guy like you not see further from your nose? Tell me, please.
I've had a (dis)pleasure of vising Riyadh for couple of days. When I was at a mall, I saw young men (religious police) circling the mall and "advising" men and women on how they should interact with each other.
The only difference between the religious police in Saudi Arabia and cops in this incident is the morality they're enforcing.
Last edited by PJSaturn; 05-29-2018 at 09:30 AM..
Reason: Fixed technical glitch in quote.
Well why didn't they say that in the original article? You've got a guy who's done this multiple times and has antistalking orders against him, by other waitstaff yes, it's time to involve the cops and put a stop to this.
Most likely because this waitress was the first one gutsy enough to take a stand.
I am sure the cops and d.a. considered it, hence the charge was brought up.
Sorry, but as others have said, jail time is unreasonable and excessive. Either one week in jail or a $5,000 fine would accomplish the same thing.
But I am glad that at least the publicity over this is accomplishing at least one thing -- and that is the fact that such behavior is completely WRONG, and if anyone does this, he (or she) might be in BIG trouble with consequences to match.
Come one, now. You're taking extreme examples and extrapolating them to the overall population. It's the same reasoning used to keep weed from being legal. "It's a gateway drug"!!! I've been grabbed before, often by drunk or unstable women, and yet I was able to keep it from escalating, and I'm pretty sure none of them were arrested for rape or habitual harassment down the road.
The state shouldn't be involved in policing morality.
So the state should take no stance if I punch you in the nose? That isn’t a threat obviously, I am simply drawing another analogy, one that I think is more appropriate than your weed legalization.
I also take objection to your assertion that this is about morality. To an extent there is a sexual element, but the big issue is one of being safe. One personal right to freedom extends to the safety of their body, and here you are saying that doesn’t matter.
Let’s also be realistic here. Men are up to twice the size of women. I am a rather large guy myself, and if I wanted to grab a woman, there are very few who could physically stop me. Conversely, although a woman could sneak a grab in on me, if I wasn’t thrilled by it I could end it immediately and definitively. Women cannot do that.
Additionally, there is a power dynamic at work here. The woman’s livelihood, in terms of nightly tips, rests on this. She cannot simply and easily confront a customer without incurring a financial penalty, or maybe losing her job.
The guy was predatory, and a small penalty is appropriate. Not a year in jail, but something to punish and deter.
No. How can a smart guy like you not see further from your nose? Tell me, please.
I've had a (dis)pleasure of vising Riyadh for couple of days. When I was at a mall, I saw young men (religious police) circling the mall and "advising" men and women on how they should interact with each other.
The only difference between the religious police in Saudi Arabia and cops in this incident is the morality they're enforcing.
A simple misunderstanding. I did not think along the lines of the anecdote you now relate.
The state shouldn't be involved in policing morality.
They aren't. They are involved because one stranger forcibly touched another stranger in a portion of her body where the touch is only proper if it involved a spouse, or other significant other. Period.
If he smacks his wife's butt, it is not a crime. But if the waitress's bf smacked the patron's wife's butt, that is a crime.
Its not a morality issue, but a violation of invading another person's body issue.
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
2,907 posts, read 2,068,439 times
Reputation: 4478
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
So the state should take no stance if I punch you in the nose? That isn’t a threat obviously, I am simply drawing another analogy, one that I think is more appropriate than your weed legalization.
I also take objection to your assertion that this is about morality. To an extent there is a sexual element, but the big issue is one of being safe. One personal right to freedom extends to the safety of their body, and here you are saying that doesn’t matter.
Let’s also be realistic here. Men are up to twice the size of women. I am a rather large guy myself, and if I wanted to grab a woman, there are very few who could physically stop me. Conversely, although a woman could sneak a grab in on me, if I wasn’t thrilled by it I could end it immediately and definitively. Women cannot do that.
Additionally, there is a power dynamic at work here. The woman’s livelihood, in terms of nightly tips, rests on this. She cannot simply and easily confront a customer without incurring a financial penalty, or maybe losing her job.
The guy was predatory, and a small penalty is appropriate. Not a year in jail, but something to punish and deter.
I agree with you with everything you said, except the last sentence. I don't think the state should be involved in everything we find objectionable, if for no other reason that state has almost all the power, while old men like this creep have almost no power, and eventually get their due.
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
2,907 posts, read 2,068,439 times
Reputation: 4478
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960
They aren't. They are involved because one stranger forcibly touched another stranger in a portion of her body where the touch is only proper if it involved a spouse, or other significant other. Period.
If he smacks his wife's butt, it is not a crime. But if the waitress's bf smacked the patron's wife's butt, that is a crime.
Its not a morality issue, but a violation of invading another person's body issue.
Ever rode public transportation during a rush hour in just about any major US city? How about sit in an aisle seat on a commercial airplane? I can't tell you how many times I've had someone's crotch, or an ass in my face.
I agree with you with everything you said, except the last sentence. I don't think the state should be involved in everything we find objectionable, if for no other reason that state has almost all the power, while old men like this creep have almost no power, and eventually get their due.
If i remember correctly, don’t you hold to a pretty extreme libertarian, Randian philosophy? You dislike government in virtually all aspects?
The problem with applying that philosophy to this specific incident is one of practicality. Whether you agree with it or not, we do have a system that includes rule of law. The woman’s options are constrained by this, and the law provides her with options as well.
You may wish our society was different, but as it isn’t, it seems best to me to discuss issues like this by acknowledging reality.
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